[governance] on collective v. individual rights

[Jeremy Shtern]

Hi all,

Without seeking to myself intervene in this discussion, I'd like to 
recommend an article that reviews the debates within the human rights 
literature on questions related to the juridicability of collective 
rights. She argues that the view that a dichotomy exists between first 
and second gen rights is largely discredited amongst contemporary human 
rights scholars and reviews more recent models that see individual and 
collective rights as more complimentary. Perhaps there is a road to 
compromise in her approach.....

Koch, I.E. 2005. "Dichotomies, Trichotomies or Waves of Duties?” in 
Human Rights Law Review 5(1): 81-103.

Regards,

Jeremy Shtern




---------------------------------------------------

Jeremy Shtern


Researcher: the media at McGill unit for critical communication studies

&

PhD candidate (ABD): Université de Montréal, département de communication


jeremy.shtern at umontreal.ca

----------------------------------------------------



Milton L Mueller wrote:
>   
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Parminder [mailto:parminder at itforchange.net] 
>> As for "the old "as long as we can afford it" (ALAWCAI) 
>> clause, you know
>> that some kind of ALAWCAI is applicable to all rights, even 
>> to the negative ones. 
>>     
>
> Not really, but too philosophical and time-consuming a debate to get
> into here.
>
>   
>> You yourself mention article 29 of UDHR as an ALAWCAI clause. 
>>     
>
> That was sarcasm. It meant, "as long as free expression doesn't threaten
> states, we'll allow it." 
>
>   
>> Within this group we have provisions in the charter that can be used
>>     
> to 
>   
>> 'limit' what may be considered by someone as his FoE. For certain
>>     
> kinds of 
>   
>> postings we can limit posting rights and or unsubscribe a list
>>     
> participant 
>   
>> altogether. We are limiting some's FoE just because we collectively (a
>>     
> word you hate)
>
> whoa. I love the word. "collective action," "collective goods" it
> reminds me of Mancur Olson, our faculty decision making process, family.
> It is a false stereotype that methodological and political
> individualists are "against" or "dislike" groups. We just have our
> priorities right. one supports individual freedom, in part, so that
> individuals can form (and leave) any groups they like. 
>
> Second, you are confusing a voluntarist group (the IGC) with state
> action. This group could decide (by consensus) that we all must salute
> chairman Parminder with a hearty "Ni!" every time you post on the list
> and kick off anyone who doesn't, then it can do that. That would not
> violate my political right to freedom of expression, it would just make
> me leave the group and start another one. 
>
>   
>> In fact in light of certain recent behavior on this list, 
>> about which I ma getting many complaints, it may be found necessary 
>> collectively (again) to revisit the ALAWCAI clause to FoE on this
>>     
> list, because we may have
>   
>> discovered that there are some other kinds of behavior which one may
>> consider his FoE, but it may not be possible for the group to 
>> 'afford' if we have to remain effective etc.
>>     
>
> Ah, so some of you do not know how to use spam filters....yes, that's a
> good example of a policy we have every right to adopt. 
>
>   
>> You know, when you say that you agree to what you agree to 
>> above, we are really far away form each other in our views. 
>>     
>
> ???
>
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