[governance] Fwd: IGC Membership list
Jeffrey A. Williams
jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com
Fri Jun 27 05:31:37 EDT 2008
Avri and all,
I find it a bit unfortunate that Avri or anyone else should
need to explain themselves in the Way Avir has below in regards
to voting or non-voting participant. Seems like shades of the
ISOC some years ago when I was still a member and the charter
changed to where only "Certain" members could vote in any
capacity. I than and there resigned my membership under protest
to the ISOC.
If the IGC is not going to recognize independent individuals
of whatever capacity, background, or condition of servitude
as able and viable members in full status, than how can the IGC
purport to be open and transparent? I don't believe it can.
Ergo discussing such principals by those "Special" members of
the IGC is hypocritical in and of itself accordingly.
Avri, FWIW, I hope your as well as all IGC participants
are able to vote and I for one, welcome your comments, and
ideas whatever they may be, even if I, or any one else agrees
or disagrees with them. And I hope you will kindly extend the
same consideration to all participants without prejudice or any
other reason.
-----Original Message-----
>From: Avri Doria <avri at psg.com>
>Sent: Jun 27, 2008 2:14 AM
>To: Parminder <parminder at itforchange.net>
>Cc: governance at lists.cpsr.org
>Subject: Re: [governance] Fwd: IGC Membership list
>
>hi,
>
>I am not saying you cannot hold elections just because I am making a
>personal protest. I am saying that I wish to log my protest. I see
>absolutely no reason why my protest should stop you from doing what
>you think its right - as long you do have the consensus of the IGC.
>To blame me for the lack of elections seems just a tab unfair -
>especially since though i disagree with your practice, I have been
>helping you in the background by providing all the information and
>assistance which you have requested.
>
>I do believe I still have the freedom of expression on this list to
>make my position clear - as long as I am not breaking the mandates of
>netiquette as defined in the charter. And if I am breaking them
>please warn me.
>
>I understand that not signing the charter before being put on the
>voter's list as you seem to believe is required by the nature of the
>organization may mean that I am no longer a voting caucus member and
>only a list member. While I would consider that unfortunately, I can
>live with it if it is the case.
>
>thank you
>a.
>
>
>
>On 27 Jun 2008, at 10:29, Parminder wrote:
>
>>
>> Avri
>>
>> Let me first mention the real issue involved here before we go into
>> arguments and counter arguments which I have no option but, because
>> once
>> again a spanner has been thrown in a simple organizational process
>> that all
>> organizations do...
>>
>> This simple issue here is that - I don't understand that how can a
>> group of
>> such global standing, importance, whatever can be held hostage to
>> single
>> member's 'decision' that she will not say, 'I do subscribe to the
>> charter'
>> come what may. I have not been able to hold elections for the last few
>> months mainly because of this one issue.
>>
>> (I understand that you take it as some kind of an ideological
>> position, but
>> there isnt much I can do about this. I think it is simple to say
>> that you
>> agree to the charter because we know you do, but since I have to ask
>> everyone, I cant make an exception in your case.)
>>
>> Ok, now to rationales and counter-rationales....
>>
>>> The list discussed this before.
>>
>> Yes, that's the problem. This has been discussed many many times. I
>> have
>> posted the email I intended to send out to make a members list a
>> few times
>> now over the last few months, and every time it has, in my view,
>> ended with
>> enough consensus that we will go ahead with this process I proposed.
>> For
>> instance, the last time it got discussed, Adam, among others,
>> clearly asked
>> me to send this email out (though I am not exactly sure what his
>> posting in
>> the current discussion means, in that context)................
>>
>> I think it is adequate, and within
>>> the charter to do what we have done before -
>>>
>>> - all IGC subscribers get access to the ballot
>>> - in submitting a ballot a voter must agree that they subscribe to
>>> the
>>> charter.
>>
>> Avri, you know very well that this is not what was done the last
>> time. This
>> only serves to confuse the members. And it cant be that you have
>> forgotten
>> because we have discussed what was done last time a couple of times
>> now on
>> this list.
>>
>> There was no mention at all in the ballot of the charter. The text
>> on the
>> ballot read -
>>
>> "By voting you affirm that you consider yourself a Civil Society
>> particpant
>> of the Internet Governance Caucus." "If you cannot so affirm, please
>> do not
>> vote."
>>
>> I cant see any mention of the charter here, or even of 'member'. And
>> we have
>> agreed before that there is a difference between a 'participant' (as
>> a list
>> participant) and a 'member' (with voting rights). So will you please
>> explain how you say the above as per your email is "what we have done
>> before".
>>
>> Not only this is not what we have done before, in our numerous
>> discussions
>> you have never even ever agreed that " a voter must agree that they
>> subscribe to the > charter" which you now go to the extent to say
>> that this
>> is what we have "done before".
>>
>> Your present email says what I have asked for all along and you had
>> never
>> agreed - that ' a voter must agree that they subscribe to the >
>> charter'.
>>
>> So, now the only difference in what you say and what is being done
>> is that
>> whether (1) we ask for 'that agreement to subscribe' in a single
>> step along
>> with voting, or (2) first prepare a members list as per 'subscribing
>> to the
>> charter condition' and then issue ballots to members (on the list
>> for at
>> least 2 months).
>>
>> There is not much difference between the two 'in principle', so I
>> don't know
>> why you (and some others) are still arguing on what looks like
>> 'principles'
>> issue.
>>
>> It is fine for me to take the charter subscription statement in the
>> same
>> step as voting. However for a couple of "house-keeping issues" I have
>> preferred to make a members list first and then send ballots
>> along.... I
>> will give my reasons for this, but can others opposing this can give
>> their
>> reason as well, while responding to my reasons...
>>
>> (1) Members list is applicable for purposes other than voting as
>> well, and
>> it is good to have a standing members list which we don't have at
>> present...
>>
>>
>> (2) it is a bit confusing on a ballot list to say - "a voter must
>> agree that
>> they subscribe" because what if the voters says nothing to this part
>> and
>> just goes ahead and votes. On the other hnd, is response to a
>> specific email
>> about subscribing to the charter and accepting membership the
>> respondent
>> clearly knows what she is responding to.
>>
>> (3) Some people do not vote in co-coordinators elections just
>> because they
>> do not care to make a choice in this regard. Do they lose membership
>> because
>> of that. Many who voted for the charter did not vote for the co-
>> coordinators
>> elections only a few months later. Did they therefore lose
>> membership? (I
>> have stated these issues umpteen times earlier). In any case nowhere
>> was it
>> mentioned, the last time, that voting is compulsory to retain (obtain)
>> membership, right.
>>
>> Can the coordinator in charge of the elections be allowed to make this
>> simple process choice to do a two step process especially now when
>> there is
>> no 'principles' issues left since you agree that one should first
>> agree that
>> she subscribes to the charter before voting... also especially since
>> the
>> coordinator has taken this matter to the list at least 4 times now
>> and is
>> convinced that there has been enough consensus to follow this
>> process. But,
>> still, you may counter the above imperatives for following the two
>> step
>> process that we have laid out. Also pl specifically mention what is
>> gained
>> by doing it as a single step process - which does involve assertion
>> of
>> subscription to the charter - rather than a two step one, as I am
>> doing...
>>
>> Parminder
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Avri Doria [mailto:avri at psg.com]
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 7:09 PM
>>> To: Governance Caucus
>>> Subject: Re: [governance] Fwd: IGC Membership list
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> The list discussed this before. I think it is adequate, and within
>>> the charter to do what we have done before -
>>>
>>> - all IGC subscribers get access to the ballot
>>> - in submitting a ballot a voter must agree that they subscribe to
>>> the
>>> charter.
>>>
>>> What was called the one stage process in the previous discussion
>>>
>>> The coordinators decided to go another route, I guess they believe
>>> they have consensus - and they might.
>>>
>>> I am not asking for reconsideration so much as recording my
>>> continuing
>>> objection to the decision.
>>>
>>> I also will not be responding to the coordinators request.
>>>
>>> I do not see what else I can do.
>>>
>>> a.
>>>
>>> On 26 Jun 2008, at 15:07, Nyangkwe Agien Aaron wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear Avri
>>>>
>>>> I agree with your disagrement. But how do we move forward? You
>>>> cannot
>>>> just disagree and be contended at that. Put another option on the
>>>> table.
>>>> The ball is in your court
>>>>
>>>> Aaron
>>>>
>>>> On 6/26/08, William Drake <william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 2:29 PM, McTim <dogwallah at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I second the e-motion.
>>>>>
>>>>> Unless we know who is and isn't in a member with standing, what is
>>>>> the
>>>>> significance of someone saying they second a motion?
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill
>>>>> ____________________________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>> For all list information and functions, see:
>>>>> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Aaron Agien Nyangkwe
>>>> Journalist/Outcome Mapper
>>>> Special Assistant To The President
>>>> Coach of ASAFE Camaroes Street Football Team.
>>>> ASAFE
>>>> P.O.Box 5213
>>>> Douala-Cameroon
>>>> Tel. 237 3337 50 22
>>>> Cell Phone: 237 79 95 71 97
>>>> Fax. 237 3342 29 70
>>>> ____________________________________________________________
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>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________
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>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
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>
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