[governance] Innovation

Tue Nov 27 20:36:01 EST 2007

Meryem,

thin skin problem and no substantive response. I apologize that you felt 
cased personally. I have no problem with your French or any other 
belonging. I did use a caricature of your view, not of your person or any 
group you identify with or others do. IMO in your overreaction - you 
qualify as anger my question - you are skirting the substance.

Now, question, exercise, no anger, just trying to quantify the problem you 
want solved: do you acknowledge anything positive in ICANN?

I will not escalate this dialogue any further to a flame war. I will take 
with me the lesson of the asymmetric definition of civil discourse.

Alejandro Pisanty

.  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  . .  .  .  .  .  .
      Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
Director General de Servicios de Computo Academico
UNAM, Universidad Nacional Autonoma de Mexico
Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
Tel. (+52-55) 5622-8541, 5622-8542 Fax 5622-8540
http://www.dgsca.unam.mx
*
---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, www.isoc.org
  Participa en ICANN, www.icann.org
.  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .

On Wed, 28 Nov 2007, Meryem Marzouki wrote:

> Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 01:47:19 +0100
> From: Meryem Marzouki <marzouki at ras.eu.org>
> Reply-To: governance at lists.cpsr.org, Meryem Marzouki <marzouki at ras.eu.org>
> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org
> Subject: Re: [governance] Innovation
> 
> A la Kieren: "Ad hominem attack".
> But nevermind: I'm not impressed, and I shut up when I decide to, not when 
> coarse intimidation is tried.
> I'm wondering why such anger? Why the mere critic of ICANN is provoking such 
> extreme and insulting reactions?
> Meryem
> PS. When you'll run short of French caricatures, just let me know. I'll tell 
> you know what's my other citizenship/culture/origin, so that you'll be able 
> to find in another folklore some hopefully more original insults.
>
> Le 28 nov. 07 à 00:48, Alejandro Pisanty a écrit :
>
>> Meryem,
>> 
>> at this level of discourse it is proper that you go back to your Minitel. A 
>> nice, closed, government-controlled/guaranteed environment in which you do 
>> not need to be confronted with an opinion that varies from the one you 
>> hold, no need for open standards, no need for people of diverse views to 
>> come together and actually build something that works; just wait for the 
>> providers to do it for you. A neat, Cartesian, "clean, well-lighted place" 
>> (horrible things happened outside it but never mind.) Having vented off:
>> 
>> We now know the many flaws you recognize in ICANN. To the best of what I 
>> can gather, many of the flaws you see derive from a lack of working 
>> knowledge of the organization and its evolution and are strongly tinted by 
>> prejudice. It is your privilege to say they aren't. So, exercise:
>> 
>> What do you recognize in ICANN that is positive?
>> 
>> Yours,
>> 
>> Alejandro Pisanty
>> 
>> .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  . .  .  .  .  .  .
>>      Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
>> Director General de Servicios de Computo Academico
>> UNAM, Universidad Nacional Autonoma de Mexico
>> Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
>> Tel. (+52-55) 5622-8541, 5622-8542 Fax 5622-8540
>> http://www.dgsca.unam.mx
>> *
>> ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, www.isoc.org
>>  Participa en ICANN, www.icann.org
>> .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  . 
>> .
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, 28 Nov 2007, Meryem Marzouki wrote:
>> 
>>> Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 00:29:56 +0100
>>> From: Meryem Marzouki <marzouki at ras.eu.org>
>>> Reply-To: governance at lists.cpsr.org, Meryem Marzouki <marzouki at ras.eu.org>
>>> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org
>>> Subject: Re: [governance] Innovation
>>> 
>>> Le 27 nov. 07 à 20:13, Alejandro Pisanty a écrit :
>>> 
>>>> Meryem,
>>>> this:
>>>>> (NB. I do understand why people/organizations that currently benefit 
>>>>> from ICANN in one way or another want to keep their privileges. What 
>>>>> about others?)
>>>> is really the core of your argument, isn't it?
>>> 
>>> No. I was not making an argument in this message actually. I was asking a 
>>> question.
>>> 
>>>> You do not see a benefit in increased competition, gradual introduction 
>>>> of new gTLDs, increased coordination between the gTLD and the ccTLD 
>>>> space, a framework for a level of cooperation among RIRs not provided by 
>>>> the NRO, and between the different subsystems for the subset of critical 
>>>> Internet resources in this specific mandate, operation of the IANA 
>>>> function with respect to gTLDs, ccTLDs, protocol parameters, IPv4 and 
>>>> IPv6 addresses, gTLD data escrow to protect consumers from registry/ar 
>>>> breakdown's fallout, IDNs in the root, presence of technical, business, 
>>>> academic and civil society from the developing world which is not 
>>>> mediated or impeded by their governments, etc. etc. etc.
>>> 
>>> Wow! God bless ICANN. Without it, we cannot have all this, then? And 
>>> before it was set up, we couldn't even dream of all this, right? I wont 
>>> even comment on your last sentence, and what it reveals ("developing world 
>>> governments can only *impede* the presence of their technical, business, 
>>> academic and civil society"). Simply agree with you that the introduction 
>>> of new gTLDs is *very* gradual..
>>> 
>>>> Then your argument is that the hard-working Vittorios, Avris, Brets, 
>>>> Jacquelines, and so many others involved in the ALAC, and all others who 
>>>> actually make the system run, are only doing it to defend "privileges"?
>>> 
>>> Et voila.. I ask "what about others?", and that's the only way you've 
>>> found to answer? It would probably better if you don't answer instead of 
>>> the concerned persons, BTW.
>>> 
>>>> Or do you include among "those who benefit from ICANN" the many 
>>>> businesses, social organizations, and individuals who benefit from what 
>>>> is described three paragraphs above? What are their "privileges"? A 
>>>> stable, expanding DNS, IP allocation system, IANA, protocol-parameter 
>>>> space, etc., are "privileges"?
>>> 
>>> God bless ICANN, once again. Since everything's perfect, why are we having 
>>> such discussions?
>>> 
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>
> ____________________________________________________________
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