[governance] Has the technical community failed wrt IPv6' .... Governance Frameworks for Critical Internet Resources'

[McTim]

On Nov 10, 2007 3:14 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian <suresh at hserus.net> wrote:

>
> As compared to how many that are announcing v4, again?

How many ASNs announcing v4 prefixes or how many v4 prefixes announced?

potaroo.net is your friend ;-)

>
> Most of the v6 boosting is generally koolaid,

I too have seen the v6 enabled demo of the remote opening of window
blinds in Madrid from a continent away.

>
> Whatever production deployment of v6, whatever v6 prefix announcing was
> going to happen has happened.

a tad pessimistic.

>
> Now, unless
>
> * someone thinks of a killer app for v6 only hosts
> * a major broadband / cellular carrier edge/3g rollout assigns v6 to
> customers
>
> or something on that scale, all you are left with is a few hobbyists
> running tunnels, a few sites (freebsd ftp servers and such) that run dual
> stack v6 + v4 machines, etc.
>
> Drops in the bucket.
>

Yup, but I reckon it's just a longer phase of pioneering than was
planned.  If you want to fill a bucket, the first drops are important!

> >> The world has changed since then and it's just possible that a more creative
> >> way of expanding the number pool might be available to us now that wasn't
> >> thought about then.
> >
> >Could you be more specific?
>
> Er, I keep coming across hijacked /16s here and there, some reclamation
> might help (and yes it is going on)
>

true, 12 /8 was recently reclaimed, but that too is a drop in the
bucket, even ALL if all of the legacy space was reclaimed, used or
not, is only putting this off for a few years (not 20, certainly).

> Then again there's no shortage of random ISPs (in the third world or the
> first) whose IP allocation procedure consists of entries in an excel sheet,
> and are sloppy at best about things like reclaiming space from customers,
> aggregating their prefix announcements etc. I know and have talked to
> various ISPs who still say "class C" for example, and probably got trained
> in classful addressing too .. just cant wrap their minds around CIDR and
> their network allocation methods show it.
>

ACK

My ISPs network manager can't tell me what my IP is, (I have to tell her).

> Trimming some of that wasteful use might result in surprising savings of IP
> addresses.
>
> That's not creative, that's elbow grease and hard work. But ..
>
> >But there will be a biz case if /when
> >a) mandated (or encouraged by carrots) via gov't intervention
> >b) after v4 runout
>
> c) after the vendors kool aid supply runs out.

agreed

>
> >> But back to Guru's question about what this has to do with governance. Quite
> >> a lot. Neither IGF in it's current state or current "governance"
> >> institutions of a technical nature
> >
> >The governance institutions that deal with these are actually
> >administrative in nature.
>
> Very true. I wish a lot more people would realize that
>

me too

> The RIR mechanism is actually [1] adequate [2] far better clued on how to
> manage IP addresses. People of the caliber of geoff huston dont grow on
> trees, strangely enough.

right on!

>
> And when I see IP addressing arguments and even vaguer root server
> arguments come in (one gentleman was assuring me that they were going to
> give his country just root servers .. read root server anycast instances ..
> but he held out for three, and very proud he was, never mind that most ISPs
> in his country still route their packets so they take a roundtrip through
> Singapore or the USA before coming back into the country...)
>
> Great, when you consider what kind of highly informed opinions can come in
> from various people who have not had control of much more than a T1 or ADSL
> line with maybe a /26 ... much more interesting when the commenter is just
> about good at configuring an IP address onto his laptop.
>
> >By the time you get your "structural change" together, the IPv4 pool
> >will be exhausted.  Best to work within the current system which is
> >deeply engaged in finding solutions in this space!
>
> As for the v6 space, given the way it is currently being allocated - I
> guess once we get ipv9 (hallelujah for Jim Fleming!)

I thought his mantra was IPv8/IPv16!!

 and interstellar
> internet we'll have the Intergalactic Governance Forum, and Milton
> Mueller's great^n grandson can debate this with green and red spotted
> tentacled aliens from the crab nebula.

Who might have an intergalactic number/naming scheme better than ours ;-))

-- 
Cheers,

McTim
$ whois -h whois.afrinic.net mctim
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