[governance] "Internet users" Summit
Meryem Marzouki
marzouki at ras.eu.org
Thu Dec 13 10:36:43 EST 2007
Thanks for these details, Jacqueline. I was aware of the ALAC list
archives (http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/pipermail/alac_atlarge-
lists.icann.org/), which are indeed public, but there was not much
discussion on this issue, and specifically on the 1st draft available
at https://st.icann.org/alac/index.cgi?motion_on_the_summit_proposal.
I was rather referring to the list of the working group (http://
atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/summit-wg_atlarge-
lists.icann.org), which requires authentification to access the
archives restricted to list members.
I've also found directions to a google group (http://
groups.google.com/group/icann-summit/web/icann-ensemble), but also
restricted to members (any application should first be approved). The
description of this google group is: "This group is for anyone
interested in helping to stage the ICANN At-Large Summit, tentatively
scheduled for the ICANN meeting in June 2008, to bring together all
of its At-Large Structures for the purposes of education and policy
development. "
Probably what should be made clear is that this "Internet users"
summit is nothing more than a meeting of At-large structures and
their current ALSes.
Best,
Meryem
Le 13 déc. 07 à 15:54, Jacqueline A. Morris a écrit :
> Hi
> I'm not part of the Working group/committee, the At Large list is
> open, and
> as far as I know all discussions are open and openly archived. I
> redirected
> as I am not sure how many of them are actively monitoring this
> list. So I
> hope that the people on the WG who know how to answer your
> questions will
> reply to you soon. The leadership of the committee/working group
> for the
> Summit is also publicly listed,
> https://st.icann.org/alac/index.cgi?
> at_large_officers_and_working_group_lead
> ers, so maybe you'd like to personally direct questions and
> comments to any
> of the leadership.
> Jacqueline
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Meryem Marzouki [mailto:marzouki at ras.eu.org]
>> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 03:42
>> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org
>> Subject: Re: [governance] "Internet users" Summit
>>
>> Hi Jacqueline,
>>
>> Actually, I tried to find on various ALAC lists any substantive
>> discussions that this proposal (which, as I mentioned, was sent to
>> ALAC structures on November 1st) would have created, and found
>> nothing of this sort. I would have expected that the proposal
>> (vision, objectives, deliverables, restricting conditions on
>> attendance, frame, and tonality of expected discussions -- as well as
>> the legitimacy and relevance of the very existence of such
>> conditions) of an "Internet user Summit" would be at least discussed
>> on a mailing list which archives are public (if the list itself is
>> not open). If it's about an at-large structures/ALSes meeting, then
>> fine; but if this thing claims to be an "Internet users" summit, then
>> this is not understandable.
>>
>> How could I send comments to a committee which discussions are closed
>> (thus, I don't even know on which current version of the proposal I
>> should comment), and which existence is not even clearly announced
>> and known?
>>
>> Also, I don't see why you've decided, without informing me first, to
>> copy your answer (including my comments, thus actually copying my
>> comments) to another, closed, list? As you should be well aware, one
>> does formulate comments depending on which group of people they are
>> addressed, and depending on a whole context (the "Internet users"
>> summit was discussed on this governance list). A more respectful
>> attitude would have been to provide the information that a committee
>> was working on this, to provide the last version of the proposal, and
>> then to encourage providing comments to this committee.
>>
>> In any case, your answer confirms my initial comments on this
>> "Internet users" summit. In addition, I would appreciate your own
>> comments on this, like, say, what is not anymore relevant as it has
>> been modified or suppressed by the committee, since you seem to be
>> part of it. Other members of this "committee" who are subscribers to
>> this IGC list are also welcome to provide information and answers to
>> questions.
>> Here are again my initial comments:
>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Meryem Marzouki [mailto:marzouki at ras.eu.org]
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 19:20
>>>> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org
>>>> Subject: [governance] "Internet users" Summit
>>>> [...]
>>>> - Estimated budget: 500,000 USD (350,000 euros)
>>>>
>>>> i.e. 310 USD (200 euros) per hotel night and 112 USD (75 euros) per
>>>> diem. Which is quite good in Paris (unless, of course, if you only
>>>> drink champaign -- a lot of champaign, I mean)
>>>> [...]
>>>> In summary:
>>>>
>>>> - "Internet users" == (current) "ICANN At-Large community". So,
>> let's
>>>> call this event by its name, i.e. the big "at-large structures"
>>>> party, rather than "Internet users summit".
>>>>
>>>> - This "summit" is intended for current At-large structures/ALSes
>>>> capacity building (what the hell are they doing in the RALOs if not
>>>> yet aware of ICANN's - and specially at-large - arcanes and what's
>> at
>>>> stake??)
>>>>
>>>> - Whatever "declaration" will be written, it will be in the name of
>>>> all "Individual Internet Users" on earth
>>>>
>>>> My favorites are the "Notes". The two ones reproduced above mean:
>>>>
>>>> - "Information related to ICANN issues requiring attention" will be
>>>> elaborated and distributed by the "Summit" organizers: frame the
>>>> debate as you want, and you'll get the outcome you want
>>>>
>>>> - "All points of view will be welcomed"... But..."Advocacy outside
>>>> the scope of ICANN or intended as simply negative or obstructionist
>>>> will not be welcomed." :)))) From only some discussions on this
>> list,
>>>> we can imagine what this means.
>>>>
>>>> Last but not least, given the budget per person, if you're an
>>>> academic, I indeed recommend that you attend this "summit" as an
>>>> ALS
>>>> "leader" rather than visiting some colleagues in Paris in an
>> academic
>>>> stay framework or rather than coming as a UN consultant (per
>> Suresh's
>>>> indications).. Not to mention comparisons with usual low budget CS
>>>> activities..
>>>>
>>>> In any case, being myself based in Paris, I can guarantee that
>>>> Paris
>>>> is really great in June, and that these people will spend nice
>>>> holidays here, in addition to reinforcing their positions as
>>>> "leadership", "representing" Internet users, a.k.a citizens.
>>
>> Best,
>> Meryem
>>
>>
>> Le 13 déc. 07 à 02:00, Jacqueline A. Morris a écrit :
>>
>>> This was a first draft at the proposal - there are loads of people
>>> working
>>> in a committee to develop this proposal further, so your comments
>>> should be
>>> sent to them, so that they can be taken into consideration. To that
>>> end I've
>>> copied the ALAC list on this email.
>>>
>>> Jacqueline
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Meryem Marzouki [mailto:marzouki at ras.eu.org]
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 19:20
>>>> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org
>>>> Subject: [governance] "Internet users" Summit
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Le 10 déc. 07 à 09:32, Vittorio Bertola a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>> However, since the idea of a summit came out months ago, I have
>>>>> been repeating that the ICANN Board will never put money on
>>>>> this if
>>>>> a clear explanation of "how will this event make a difference"
>>>>> isn't provided. So (AFAIK, as I'm not inside the process any more)
>>>>> the organizers are now working on providing exactly that. In
>>>>> general, I think that the event could be very useful or very
>>>>> useless depending on how its agenda and purposes are set up. I
>>>>> expect that this will be presented to the broader community in the
>>>>> near future.
>>>>
>>>> and
>>>>
>>>> Le 10 déc. 07 à 09:02, Kleinwächter, Wolfgang a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>> Why not to start with 12 people in a working group to draft a
>>>>> strategy to find out what to do and how to intervene?
>>>>
>>>> Do you both mean, say, something like this:
>>>>
>>>> https://st.icann.org/alac/index.cgi?motion_on_the_summit_proposal
>>>> (motion sent to ALAC mailing list on Nov 1st, and - as far as I've
>>>> understood - prepared by Sebastien Bachollet (Isoc-France)) ?
>>>>
>>>> excerpts:
>>>> ""ICANN Ensemble" A global summit of the ICANN At-Large community"
>>>> - Estimated budget: 500,000 USD (350,000 euros)
>>>>
>>>> i.e. 310 USD (200 euros) per hotel night and 112 USD (75 euros) per
>>>> diem. Which is quite good in Paris (unless, of course, if you only
>>>> drink champaign -- a lot of champaign, I mean)
>>>>
>>>> - Vision
>>>> "The Summit's intent to
>>>> 3.1.Help the At-Large structures to better understand At-Large
>>>> mandates, structures, processes.
>>>> 3.2.Provide the tools needed by At-Large leadership to involve and
>>>> engage their members.
>>>> 3.3.Drive the development of timely policy study and
>>>> recommendations
>>>> reflecting the At-Large point of view on both global and regional
>>>> levels.
>>>> 3.4.Encourage the exchange of ideas, experiences and energy within
>>>> ICANN's At-Large community."
>>>>
>>>> - 4.Objectives
>>>>
>>>> "4.1.An informed At-Large community that is better able to interact
>>>> with other ICANN constituencies, supporting organisations and
>>>> advisory committees.
>>>> 4.2.An informed At-Large community that clearly understands the
>>>> issues confronting ICANN and ICANN's roles and responsibilities
>>>> therein.
>>>> 4.3.Increased involvement by At-Large in ICANN policy debate.
>>>> 4.4.An At-Large community that more clearly understands the global,
>>>> rather than merely regional, point of view on ICANN-related issues.
>>>> 4.5.A more engaged At-Large community that clearly understands the
>>>> timing and framework of various issues currently confronting ICANN"
>>>>
>>>> - 5.Deliverables
>>>>
>>>> "5.1.Resolutions based on policy development. Any resolutions which
>>>> are not agreed to at the Final Plenary or require more regional
>>>> consultation should be accompanied by hard deadlines for passage.
>>>> 5.2.Establishment of working groups related to specific policies
>> with
>>>> explicit goals and timetables for production of papers or
>>>> resolutions.
>>>> 5.3.ALS leadership who are fully aware of ICANN, its workings and
>> its
>>>> issues, who are ready and able to bring this information to their
>>>> members.
>>>> 5.4.Improved contacts and relationships between ICANN ALSs, within
>>>> and between regions, and between At-Large and other ICANN
>>>> constituencies.
>>>> 5.5.Work on a “Individual Internet Users” declaration."
>>>>
>>>> - 9.Notes
>>>>
>>>> "[...]
>>>> •Summit organizers -- with the assistance of ALAC, RALO chairs and
>>>> ICANN staff -- will distribute in advance to ALSs information
>> related
>>>> to ICANN issues requiring attention. Each ALS is expected to
>>>> discuss
>>>> the policy issues sufficiently so that its delegates to the Summit
>>>> can participate and vote on group resolutions.
>>>> [...]
>>>>
>>>> •All points of view will be welcomed; however, it is stressed that
>>>> the Summit is intended to be a positive, progressive event and
>>>> delegates are expected to participate in that spirit. Advocacy
>>>> outside the scope of ICANN or intended as simply negative or
>>>> obstructionist will not be welcomed."
>>>>
>>>> (end of quotes)
>>>>
>>>> In summary:
>>>>
>>>> - "Internet users" == (current) "ICANN At-Large community". So,
>> let's
>>>> call this event by its name, i.e. the big "at-large structures"
>>>> party, rather than "Internet users summit".
>>>>
>>>> - This "summit" is intended for current At-large structures/ALSes
>>>> capacity building (what the hell are they doing in the RALOs if not
>>>> yet aware of ICANN's - and specially at-large - arcanes and what's
>> at
>>>> stake??)
>>>>
>>>> - Whatever "declaration" will be written, it will be in the name of
>>>> all "Individual Internet Users" on earth
>>>>
>>>> My favorites are the "Notes". The two ones reproduced above mean:
>>>>
>>>> - "Information related to ICANN issues requiring attention" will be
>>>> elaborated and distributed by the "Summit" organizers: frame the
>>>> debate as you want, and you'll get the outcome you want
>>>>
>>>> - "All points of view will be welcomed"... But..."Advocacy outside
>>>> the scope of ICANN or intended as simply negative or obstructionist
>>>> will not be welcomed." :)))) From only some discussions on this
>> list,
>>>> we can imagine what this means.
>>>>
>>>> Last but not least, given the budget per person, if you're an
>>>> academic, I indeed recommend that you attend this "summit" as an
>>>> ALS
>>>> "leader" rather than visiting some colleagues in Paris in an
>> academic
>>>> stay framework or rather than coming as a UN consultant (per
>> Suresh's
>>>> indications).. Not to mention comparisons with usual low budget CS
>>>> activities..
>>>>
>>>> In any case, being myself based in Paris, I can guarantee that
>>>> Paris
>>>> is really great in June, and that these people will spend nice
>>>> holidays here, in addition to reinforcing their positions as
>>>> "leadership", "representing" Internet users, a.k.a citizens.
>>>>
>>>> Have fun.
>>>>
>>>> Meryem____________________________________________________________
>>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>> governance at lists.cpsr.org
>>>> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>>>> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>>>>
>>>> For all list information and functions, see:
>>>> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________
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>>
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>
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