[governance] "Internet users" Summit

Thu Dec 13 09:54:00 EST 2007

Hi
I'm not part of the Working group/committee, the At Large list is open, and
as far as I know all discussions are open and openly archived. I redirected
as I am not sure how many of them are actively monitoring this list. So I
hope that the people on the WG who know how to answer your questions will
reply to you soon. The leadership of the committee/working group for the
Summit  is also publicly listed,
https://st.icann.org/alac/index.cgi?at_large_officers_and_working_group_lead
ers, so maybe you'd like to personally direct questions and comments to any
of the leadership. 
Jacqueline

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Meryem Marzouki [mailto:marzouki at ras.eu.org]
> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 03:42
> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org
> Subject: Re: [governance] "Internet users" Summit
> 
> Hi Jacqueline,
> 
> Actually, I tried to find on various ALAC lists any substantive
> discussions that this proposal (which, as I mentioned, was sent to
> ALAC structures on November 1st) would have created, and found
> nothing of this sort. I would have expected that the proposal
> (vision, objectives, deliverables, restricting conditions on
> attendance, frame, and tonality of expected discussions -- as well as
> the legitimacy and relevance of the very existence of such
> conditions) of an "Internet user Summit" would be at least discussed
> on a mailing list which archives are public (if the list itself is
> not open). If it's about an at-large structures/ALSes meeting, then
> fine; but if this thing claims to be an "Internet users" summit, then
> this is not understandable.
> 
> How could I send comments to a committee which discussions are closed
> (thus, I don't even know on which current version of the proposal I
> should comment), and which existence is not even clearly announced
> and known?
> 
> Also, I don't see why you've decided, without informing me first, to
> copy your answer (including my comments, thus actually copying my
> comments) to another, closed, list? As you should be well aware, one
> does formulate comments depending on which group of people they are
> addressed, and depending on a whole context (the "Internet users"
> summit was discussed on this governance list). A more respectful
> attitude would have been to provide the information that a committee
> was working on this, to provide the last version of the proposal, and
> then to encourage providing comments to this committee.
> 
> In any case, your answer confirms my initial comments on this
> "Internet users" summit. In addition, I would appreciate your own
> comments on this, like, say, what is not anymore relevant as it has
> been modified or suppressed by the committee, since you seem to be
> part of it. Other members of this "committee" who are subscribers to
> this IGC list are also welcome to provide information and answers to
> questions.
> Here are again my initial comments:
> 
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Meryem Marzouki [mailto:marzouki at ras.eu.org]
> >> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 19:20
> >> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org
> >> Subject: [governance] "Internet users" Summit
> >> [...]
> >> - Estimated budget: 500,000 USD (350,000 euros)
> >>
> >> i.e. 310 USD (200 euros) per hotel night and 112 USD (75 euros) per
> >> diem. Which is quite good in Paris (unless, of course, if you only
> >> drink champaign -- a lot of champaign, I mean)
> >> [...]
> >> In summary:
> >>
> >> - "Internet users" == (current) "ICANN At-Large community". So,
> let's
> >> call this event by its name, i.e. the big "at-large structures"
> >> party, rather than "Internet users summit".
> >>
> >> - This "summit" is intended for current At-large structures/ALSes
> >> capacity building (what the hell are they doing in the RALOs if not
> >> yet aware of ICANN's - and specially at-large - arcanes and what's
> at
> >> stake??)
> >>
> >> - Whatever "declaration" will be written, it will be in the name of
> >> all "Individual Internet Users" on earth
> >>
> >> My favorites are the "Notes". The two ones reproduced above mean:
> >>
> >> - "Information related to ICANN issues requiring attention" will be
> >> elaborated and distributed by the "Summit" organizers: frame the
> >> debate as you want, and you'll get the outcome you want
> >>
> >> - "All points of view will be welcomed"... But..."Advocacy outside
> >> the scope of ICANN or intended as simply negative or obstructionist
> >> will not be welcomed." :)))) From only some discussions on this
> list,
> >> we can imagine what this means.
> >>
> >> Last but not least, given the budget per person, if you're an
> >> academic, I indeed recommend that you attend this "summit" as an ALS
> >> "leader" rather than visiting some colleagues in Paris in an
> academic
> >> stay framework or rather than coming as a UN consultant (per
> Suresh's
> >> indications).. Not to mention comparisons with usual low budget CS
> >> activities..
> >>
> >> In any case, being myself based in Paris, I can guarantee that Paris
> >> is really great in June, and that these people will spend nice
> >> holidays here, in addition to reinforcing their positions as
> >> "leadership", "representing" Internet users, a.k.a citizens.
> 
> Best,
> Meryem
> 
> 
> Le 13 déc. 07 à 02:00, Jacqueline A. Morris a écrit :
> 
> > This was a first draft at the proposal - there are loads of people
> > working
> > in a committee to develop this proposal further, so your comments
> > should be
> > sent to them, so that they can be taken into consideration. To that
> > end I've
> > copied the ALAC list on this email.
> >
> > Jacqueline
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Meryem Marzouki [mailto:marzouki at ras.eu.org]
> >> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 19:20
> >> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org
> >> Subject: [governance] "Internet users" Summit
> >>
> >>
> >> Le 10 déc. 07 à 09:32, Vittorio Bertola a écrit :
> >>
> >>> However, since the idea of a summit came out months ago, I have
> >>> been repeating that the ICANN Board will never put money on this if
> >>> a clear explanation of "how will this event make a difference"
> >>> isn't provided. So (AFAIK, as I'm not inside the process any more)
> >>> the organizers are now working on providing exactly that. In
> >>> general, I think that the event could be very useful or very
> >>> useless depending on how its agenda and purposes are set up. I
> >>> expect that this will be presented to the broader community in the
> >>> near future.
> >>
> >> and
> >>
> >> Le 10 déc. 07 à 09:02, Kleinwächter, Wolfgang a écrit :
> >>
> >>> Why not to start with 12 people in a working group to draft a
> >>> strategy to find out what to do and how to intervene?
> >>
> >> Do you both mean, say, something like this:
> >>
> >> https://st.icann.org/alac/index.cgi?motion_on_the_summit_proposal
> >> (motion sent to ALAC mailing list on Nov 1st, and - as far as I've
> >> understood - prepared by Sebastien Bachollet (Isoc-France)) ?
> >>
> >> excerpts:
> >> ""ICANN Ensemble" A global summit of the ICANN At-Large community"
> >> - Estimated budget: 500,000 USD (350,000 euros)
> >>
> >> i.e. 310 USD (200 euros) per hotel night and 112 USD (75 euros) per
> >> diem. Which is quite good in Paris (unless, of course, if you only
> >> drink champaign -- a lot of champaign, I mean)
> >>
> >> - Vision
> >> "The Summit's intent to
> >> 3.1.Help the At-Large structures to better understand At-Large
> >> mandates, structures, processes.
> >> 3.2.Provide the tools needed by At-Large leadership to involve and
> >> engage their members.
> >> 3.3.Drive the development of timely policy study and recommendations
> >> reflecting the At-Large point of view on both global and regional
> >> levels.
> >> 3.4.Encourage the exchange of ideas, experiences and energy within
> >> ICANN's At-Large community."
> >>
> >> - 4.Objectives
> >>
> >> "4.1.An informed At-Large community that is better able to interact
> >> with other ICANN constituencies, supporting organisations and
> >> advisory committees.
> >> 4.2.An informed At-Large community that clearly understands the
> >> issues confronting ICANN and ICANN's roles and responsibilities
> >> therein.
> >> 4.3.Increased involvement by At-Large in ICANN policy debate.
> >> 4.4.An At-Large community that more clearly understands the global,
> >> rather than merely regional, point of view on ICANN-related issues.
> >> 4.5.A more engaged At-Large community that clearly understands the
> >> timing and framework of various issues currently confronting ICANN"
> >>
> >> - 5.Deliverables
> >>
> >> "5.1.Resolutions based on policy development. Any resolutions which
> >> are not agreed to at the Final Plenary or require more regional
> >> consultation should be accompanied by hard deadlines for passage.
> >> 5.2.Establishment of working groups related to specific policies
> with
> >> explicit goals and timetables for production of papers or
> >> resolutions.
> >> 5.3.ALS leadership who are fully aware of ICANN, its workings and
> its
> >> issues, who are ready and able to bring this information to their
> >> members.
> >> 5.4.Improved contacts and relationships between ICANN ALSs, within
> >> and between regions, and between At-Large and other ICANN
> >> constituencies.
> >> 5.5.Work on a Individual Internet Users declaration."
> >>
> >> - 9.Notes
> >>
> >> "[...]
> >> Summit organizers -- with the assistance of ALAC, RALO chairs and
> >> ICANN staff -- will distribute in advance to ALSs information
> related
> >> to ICANN issues requiring attention. Each ALS is expected to discuss
> >> the policy issues sufficiently so that its delegates to the Summit
> >> can participate and vote on group resolutions.
> >> [...]
> >>
> >> All points of view will be welcomed; however, it is stressed that
> >> the Summit is intended to be a positive, progressive event and
> >> delegates are expected to participate in that spirit. Advocacy
> >> outside the scope of ICANN or intended as simply negative or
> >> obstructionist will not be welcomed."
> >>
> >> (end of quotes)
> >>
> >> In summary:
> >>
> >> - "Internet users" == (current) "ICANN At-Large community". So,
> let's
> >> call this event by its name, i.e. the big "at-large structures"
> >> party, rather than "Internet users summit".
> >>
> >> - This "summit" is intended for current At-large structures/ALSes
> >> capacity building (what the hell are they doing in the RALOs if not
> >> yet aware of ICANN's - and specially at-large - arcanes and what's
> at
> >> stake??)
> >>
> >> - Whatever "declaration" will be written, it will be in the name of
> >> all "Individual Internet Users" on earth
> >>
> >> My favorites are the "Notes". The two ones reproduced above mean:
> >>
> >> - "Information related to ICANN issues requiring attention" will be
> >> elaborated and distributed by the "Summit" organizers: frame the
> >> debate as you want, and you'll get the outcome you want
> >>
> >> - "All points of view will be welcomed"... But..."Advocacy outside
> >> the scope of ICANN or intended as simply negative or obstructionist
> >> will not be welcomed." :)))) From only some discussions on this
> list,
> >> we can imagine what this means.
> >>
> >> Last but not least, given the budget per person, if you're an
> >> academic, I indeed recommend that you attend this "summit" as an ALS
> >> "leader" rather than visiting some colleagues in Paris in an
> academic
> >> stay framework or rather than coming as a UN consultant (per
> Suresh's
> >> indications).. Not to mention comparisons with usual low budget CS
> >> activities..
> >>
> >> In any case, being myself based in Paris, I can guarantee that Paris
> >> is really great in June, and that these people will spend nice
> >> holidays here, in addition to reinforcing their positions as
> >> "leadership", "representing" Internet users, a.k.a citizens.
> >>
> >> Have fun.
> >>
> >> Meryem____________________________________________________________
> >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> >>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> >> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
> >>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> >>
> >> For all list information and functions, see:
> >>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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> >
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> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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> 
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