[governance] "Internet users" Summit

Thu Dec 13 02:41:43 EST 2007

Hi Jacqueline,

Actually, I tried to find on various ALAC lists any substantive  
discussions that this proposal (which, as I mentioned, was sent to  
ALAC structures on November 1st) would have created, and found  
nothing of this sort. I would have expected that the proposal  
(vision, objectives, deliverables, restricting conditions on  
attendance, frame, and tonality of expected discussions -- as well as  
the legitimacy and relevance of the very existence of such  
conditions) of an "Internet user Summit" would be at least discussed  
on a mailing list which archives are public (if the list itself is  
not open). If it's about an at-large structures/ALSes meeting, then  
fine; but if this thing claims to be an "Internet users" summit, then  
this is not understandable.

How could I send comments to a committee which discussions are closed  
(thus, I don't even know on which current version of the proposal I  
should comment), and which existence is not even clearly announced  
and known?

Also, I don't see why you've decided, without informing me first, to  
copy your answer (including my comments, thus actually copying my  
comments) to another, closed, list? As you should be well aware, one  
does formulate comments depending on which group of people they are  
addressed, and depending on a whole context (the "Internet users"  
summit was discussed on this governance list). A more respectful  
attitude would have been to provide the information that a committee  
was working on this, to provide the last version of the proposal, and  
then to encourage providing comments to this committee.

In any case, your answer confirms my initial comments on this  
"Internet users" summit. In addition, I would appreciate your own  
comments on this, like, say, what is not anymore relevant as it has  
been modified or suppressed by the committee, since you seem to be  
part of it. Other members of this "committee" who are subscribers to  
this IGC list are also welcome to provide information and answers to  
questions.
Here are again my initial comments:

>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Meryem Marzouki [mailto:marzouki at ras.eu.org]
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 19:20
>> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org
>> Subject: [governance] "Internet users" Summit
>> [...]
>> - Estimated budget: 500,000 USD (350,000 euros)
>>
>> i.e. 310 USD (200 euros) per hotel night and 112 USD (75 euros) per
>> diem. Which is quite good in Paris (unless, of course, if you only
>> drink champaign -- a lot of champaign, I mean)
>> [...]
>> In summary:
>>
>> - "Internet users" == (current) "ICANN At-Large community". So, let's
>> call this event by its name, i.e. the big "at-large structures"
>> party, rather than "Internet users summit".
>>
>> - This "summit" is intended for current At-large structures/ALSes
>> capacity building (what the hell are they doing in the RALOs if not
>> yet aware of ICANN's - and specially at-large - arcanes and what's at
>> stake??)
>>
>> - Whatever "declaration" will be written, it will be in the name of
>> all "Individual Internet Users" on earth
>>
>> My favorites are the "Notes". The two ones reproduced above mean:
>>
>> - "Information related to ICANN issues requiring attention" will be
>> elaborated and distributed by the "Summit" organizers: frame the
>> debate as you want, and you'll get the outcome you want
>>
>> - "All points of view will be welcomed"... But..."Advocacy outside
>> the scope of ICANN or intended as simply negative or obstructionist
>> will not be welcomed." :)))) From only some discussions on this list,
>> we can imagine what this means.
>>
>> Last but not least, given the budget per person, if you're an
>> academic, I indeed recommend that you attend this "summit" as an ALS
>> "leader" rather than visiting some colleagues in Paris in an academic
>> stay framework or rather than coming as a UN consultant (per Suresh's
>> indications).. Not to mention comparisons with usual low budget CS
>> activities..
>>
>> In any case, being myself based in Paris, I can guarantee that Paris
>> is really great in June, and that these people will spend nice
>> holidays here, in addition to reinforcing their positions as
>> "leadership", "representing" Internet users, a.k.a citizens.

Best,
Meryem

Le 13 déc. 07 à 02:00, Jacqueline A. Morris a écrit :

> This was a first draft at the proposal - there are loads of people  
> working
> in a committee to develop this proposal further, so your comments  
> should be
> sent to them, so that they can be taken into consideration. To that  
> end I've
> copied the ALAC list on this email.
>
> Jacqueline
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Meryem Marzouki [mailto:marzouki at ras.eu.org]
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 19:20
>> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org
>> Subject: [governance] "Internet users" Summit
>>
>>
>> Le 10 déc. 07 à 09:32, Vittorio Bertola a écrit :
>>
>>> However, since the idea of a summit came out months ago, I have
>>> been repeating that the ICANN Board will never put money on this if
>>> a clear explanation of "how will this event make a difference"
>>> isn't provided. So (AFAIK, as I'm not inside the process any more)
>>> the organizers are now working on providing exactly that. In
>>> general, I think that the event could be very useful or very
>>> useless depending on how its agenda and purposes are set up. I
>>> expect that this will be presented to the broader community in the
>>> near future.
>>
>> and
>>
>> Le 10 déc. 07 à 09:02, Kleinwächter, Wolfgang a écrit :
>>
>>> Why not to start with 12 people in a working group to draft a
>>> strategy to find out what to do and how to intervene?
>>
>> Do you both mean, say, something like this:
>>
>> https://st.icann.org/alac/index.cgi?motion_on_the_summit_proposal
>> (motion sent to ALAC mailing list on Nov 1st, and - as far as I've
>> understood - prepared by Sebastien Bachollet (Isoc-France)) ?
>>
>> excerpts:
>> ""ICANN Ensemble" A global summit of the ICANN At-Large community"
>> - Estimated budget: 500,000 USD (350,000 euros)
>>
>> i.e. 310 USD (200 euros) per hotel night and 112 USD (75 euros) per
>> diem. Which is quite good in Paris (unless, of course, if you only
>> drink champaign -- a lot of champaign, I mean)
>>
>> - Vision
>> "The Summit's intent to
>> 3.1.Help the At-Large structures to better understand At-Large
>> mandates, structures, processes.
>> 3.2.Provide the tools needed by At-Large leadership to involve and
>> engage their members.
>> 3.3.Drive the development of timely policy study and recommendations
>> reflecting the At-Large point of view on both global and regional
>> levels.
>> 3.4.Encourage the exchange of ideas, experiences and energy within
>> ICANN's At-Large community."
>>
>> - 4.Objectives
>>
>> "4.1.An informed At-Large community that is better able to interact
>> with other ICANN constituencies, supporting organisations and
>> advisory committees.
>> 4.2.An informed At-Large community that clearly understands the
>> issues confronting ICANN and ICANN's roles and responsibilities
>> therein.
>> 4.3.Increased involvement by At-Large in ICANN policy debate.
>> 4.4.An At-Large community that more clearly understands the global,
>> rather than merely regional, point of view on ICANN-related issues.
>> 4.5.A more engaged At-Large community that clearly understands the
>> timing and framework of various issues currently confronting ICANN"
>>
>> - 5.Deliverables
>>
>> "5.1.Resolutions based on policy development. Any resolutions which
>> are not agreed to at the Final Plenary or require more regional
>> consultation should be accompanied by hard deadlines for passage.
>> 5.2.Establishment of working groups related to specific policies with
>> explicit goals and timetables for production of papers or  
>> resolutions.
>> 5.3.ALS leadership who are fully aware of ICANN, its workings and its
>> issues, who are ready and able to bring this information to their
>> members.
>> 5.4.Improved contacts and relationships between ICANN ALSs, within
>> and between regions, and between At-Large and other ICANN
>> constituencies.
>> 5.5.Work on a “Individual Internet Users” declaration."
>>
>> - 9.Notes
>>
>> "[...]
>> •Summit organizers -- with the assistance of ALAC, RALO chairs and
>> ICANN staff -- will distribute in advance to ALSs information related
>> to ICANN issues requiring attention. Each ALS is expected to discuss
>> the policy issues sufficiently so that its delegates to the Summit
>> can participate and vote on group resolutions.
>> [...]
>>
>> •All points of view will be welcomed; however, it is stressed that
>> the Summit is intended to be a positive, progressive event and
>> delegates are expected to participate in that spirit. Advocacy
>> outside the scope of ICANN or intended as simply negative or
>> obstructionist will not be welcomed."
>>
>> (end of quotes)
>>
>> In summary:
>>
>> - "Internet users" == (current) "ICANN At-Large community". So, let's
>> call this event by its name, i.e. the big "at-large structures"
>> party, rather than "Internet users summit".
>>
>> - This "summit" is intended for current At-large structures/ALSes
>> capacity building (what the hell are they doing in the RALOs if not
>> yet aware of ICANN's - and specially at-large - arcanes and what's at
>> stake??)
>>
>> - Whatever "declaration" will be written, it will be in the name of
>> all "Individual Internet Users" on earth
>>
>> My favorites are the "Notes". The two ones reproduced above mean:
>>
>> - "Information related to ICANN issues requiring attention" will be
>> elaborated and distributed by the "Summit" organizers: frame the
>> debate as you want, and you'll get the outcome you want
>>
>> - "All points of view will be welcomed"... But..."Advocacy outside
>> the scope of ICANN or intended as simply negative or obstructionist
>> will not be welcomed." :)))) From only some discussions on this list,
>> we can imagine what this means.
>>
>> Last but not least, given the budget per person, if you're an
>> academic, I indeed recommend that you attend this "summit" as an ALS
>> "leader" rather than visiting some colleagues in Paris in an academic
>> stay framework or rather than coming as a UN consultant (per Suresh's
>> indications).. Not to mention comparisons with usual low budget CS
>> activities..
>>
>> In any case, being myself based in Paris, I can guarantee that Paris
>> is really great in June, and that these people will spend nice
>> holidays here, in addition to reinforcing their positions as
>> "leadership", "representing" Internet users, a.k.a citizens.
>>
>> Have fun.
>>
>> Meryem____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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>
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