[governance] oversight, & the need for netizen feedback processes

[McTim]

Hi again,

On 10/26/05, Ronda Hauben <ronda at panix.com> wrote:
>
> I gave the IP numbers as an example that was raised in 1998. I don't
> know how much one has to pay if one wants an IP number these days.
>
> Do you?

Where u live, no.   where I live, yes.

>
> And it seemed that one only goes to the regional registries if one
> wanted a block of IP numbers. Otherwise one had to deal with an individual
> vendors.

They are actually Local Internet Registries, usually providers.  They
don't actually "sell" IPs, they lease them to customers.  IP space
costs are sometimes included in the connectitvity fees, sometimes
there are seperate charges to cover the cost of running the LIR, some
even make a profit on the lease (scandalous innit).  Every region has
different policies, made by the netizens of that region regarding fees
paid by LIRs to RIRs.

>
> I have heard that there is some concern that IP numbers are available
> to some regions but less so to others. So I don't know if the IP
> registries are free of problems.

There is concern, but it is unfounded in current reality.  The myth of
shortage is well documented elsewhere.

Joe's gripe about Bogons is a red-herring IMO.  IANA and the RIRs have
never guaranteed routability of any IP space. 
http://www.cymru.com/Bogons/  has lots of info on Bogons for your
reference.

>
> I don't want to get into the particulars of IP numbers, but I do know
> that ICANN was supposed to be the oversight for them. Obviously ICANN
> is a problem and so can't be a means of oversight for anything.
>

On the contrary, IANA manages the "root" for IP space:

% Note: This output has been filtered.
%       To receive output for a database update, use the "-B" flag
% Information related to '0.0.0.0 - 255.255.255.255'
inetnum:         0.0.0.0 - 255.255.255.255
netname:         IANA-BLK
descr:           The whole IPv4 address space
country:         EU # Country is really world wide
org:             ORG-IANA1-RIPE
admin-c:         IANA1-RIPE
tech-c:          IANA1-RIPE
status:          ALLOCATED UNSPECIFIED
remarks:         The country is really worldwide.
remarks:         This address space is assigned at various other places in
remarks:         the world and might therefore not be in the RIPE database.
mnt-by:          RIPE-NCC-HM-MNT
mnt-lower:       RIPE-NCC-HM-MNT
mnt-routes:      RIPE-NCC-RPSL-MNT
source:          RIPE # Filtered
organisation:    ORG-IANA1-RIPE
org-name:        Internet Assigned Numbers Authority
org-type:        IANA
address:         see http://www.iana.org
remarks:         The IANA allocates IP addresses and AS number blocks to RIRs
remarks:         see http://www.iana.org/ipaddress/ip-addresses.htm
remarks:         and http://www.iana.org/assignments/as-numbers
e-mail:          bitbucket at ripe.net
admin-c:         IANA1-RIPE
tech-c:          IANA1-RIPE
mnt-ref:         RIPE-NCC-HM-MNT
mnt-by:          RIPE-NCC-HM-MNT
source:          RIPE # Filtered

but "oversight" is done from the bottom-up, NOT from the top-down. 
This is the model we should be pursuing IMO.  If you don't trust
ICANN, whom would you prefer to take over the role of coordination of
technical resources (IANA function)?

> More specifically I haven't seen any thought being given to online means
> for participating in the forum, in the wsis processes etc. If one knows
> of the mailing lists for wsis one can try to join one. If one didn't
> know of them, one is locked out of any way to know what is happening
> except for what is posted on the web site.

Mailing lists and websites are the way IG is done.  How would you
prefer to do iit?

At the moment I am listening to ARIN Public Policy meeting via
webcast. I can ask questions via email if I choose.  Can't get any
more user/netizen friendly or participatory than that, short of
attending in person.  BTW, this is an "ICANN" process, and it ain't
broken!

>
> And mailing lists are often hard for people to participate in, as
> they can easily get their mailboxes swamped.

What do you suggest?

>
> An online forum is sometimes a better form, but the one that WSIS had
> a while ago was hard to participate in and when one did, one's views
> were generally ignored anyway.

So they are not really better?

>
> Even this governance mailing list has very few people able to participate
> regularly in it.

Again, what concrete alternatives do you offer?  I've seen your papers
from the 90's , they don't measure up to the current IG mechanisms
IMO.

>
> When the views of someone who isn't a regular don't get a welcome, then
> that that can serve to deter others who aren't it 'regulars' from
> making the effort to contribute.

I haven't seen that here.

>
> How to encourage a broader set of participation would be a useful question
> for this mailing list to consider as part of its effort to contribute to
> the civil society and wsis process.

CIPESA for one, is wondering if broader participation should be encouraged:

http://www.cipesa.org/african_voices/commentaries/125

--
Cheers,

McTim
nic-hdl:      TMCG

_______________________________________________
governance mailing list
governance at lists.cpsr.org
https://ssl.cpsr.org/mailman/listinfo/governance