[governance] Fleming

Sun Oct 23 08:28:40 EDT 2005

On Sun, 23 Oct 2005, David Goldstein wrote:

> Hey Joe, funny how only you and your bunch of
> journeymen are the only ones on this list who believe
> such utter crap.

can you name names :)  Your obviously well informed - NOT!

> And interesting that you think child pornography is
> fine for everyone to have.

Thats not what I said.  What I did say and I quote "Anything on the net
is in fact permissible.  Those who know the technology know how to
distribute anything they want.  Spam - child porn - or even more eclectic
porn like old toothless grannies giving blow jobs.  Its all data."

Now obviously you don't know the net well enought to understand what was
said.  Let me expand on the above statement.

When it comes to data it is not I nor you nor anyone else who has any
right to say it is permissible or not.  You see it is the technology in
this case that dictates the policies - not the users.

The Internet as I said in the past and as I say again today was designed
by people who forgot to put in control point in the middle or core of
network operations.  Or to be more accurate - the protocols we depend on
for communication dictate that we have no central control over what is or
is not permissible.  As some here know these protocols give control to the
edges of the network and that translates into end users.

This is why Internet governance issues are so irrelevant.  Thats why your
interest in the distribution of child porn or anything else you or anyone
else may find objectionable is so irrelevant.  Your not in control of the
protocol.  One can say the protocols are in control and these protocols
make everything you want on the internetwork permissible.

Those are the facts.  So you see how irrelevant this conversation you are
trying to negotiate is.

> So if you and Jim think your ideas are so good, then
> go set up your own mailing list instead of polluting
> other lists, and see how many people subscribe. But
> hey, I doubt you can meet that challenge as you're too
> scared that there would be 2 or 3 of you who join.

We have our own mailing lists.  I am here to participate in the Internet
governance WSIS forums and ensure that alternate views are heard.  My
professional opinion which will be confirmed in two weeks time is that you
have all worked so hard for nothing.

But there is a solution.  Once you governace bunnies realize you have no
control over what you want to govern - i.e. the Internet - then maybe we
may get you moving in the right direction - towards a solution.

cheers
joe

Joe Baptista, Official Public-Root Representative and Lobbyist to the
United States Congress and Senate / Tel: +1 (202) 517-1593

Public-Root Disclosure Documents: http://www.cynikal.net/~baptista/P-R/
Public-Root Discussion Forum: http://lair.lionpost.net/mailman/listinfo/pr-plan

>
> --- Joe Baptista <baptista at cynikal.net> wrote:
>
> >
> > On Sun, 23 Oct 2005, David Goldstein wrote:
> >
> > > So Joe... you think it's censorship. I suggest
> > it's
> > > out of bounds of the aims of the list and there
> > are
> > > plenty of other places for you and Jim and you
> > cronies
> > > to go and annoy people. Hey, why not even start
> > your
> > > list? Or would it be there would be you Joe, Jim
> > > and... ummm... would there be anyone else on the
> > list?
> >
> > Your arguments are clearly irrelevant and have no
> > bearing in fact.
> >
> > Anyone with a good technical background knows that
> > Fleming knows his
> > business, and indeed his commentary is relevant,
> > unfortunately you have no
> > idea what hes going on about - I understand - may I
> > recommend you educate
> > yourself.  Even call him up directly.
> >
> > > And given you've brought up censorship Joe and you
> > > seem to be of the view that anything is
> > permissable,
> > > does this mean Joe Baptista supports access to
> > child
> > > porn for everyone? Surely banning this would
> > > censorship to you too?
> >
> > Anything on the net is in fact permissible.  Those
> > who know the technology
> > know how to distribute anything they want.  Spam -
> > child porn - or even
> > more eclectic porn like old toothless grannies
> > giving blow jobs.  Its all
> > data.
> >
> > The issue here is - does Jim have something relevant
> > to say - indeed he
> > does.  I don't agree with his approach - I think at
> > this time we still
> > have time to save the DNS.  BUt if that don't work -
> > then Jim ideas are as
> > relevant as anyone elses.
> >
> > Jim s after all a recognized professional programmer
> > who knows the
> > networking field.  His ideas are therefore more
> > relevant then some of the
> > political idiocy I see here.  But then that my
> > opinion.
> >
> > cheers
> > joe baptista
> >
> > >
> > > David
> > > --- Veni Markovski <veni at veni.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Joe,
> > > > while this is possible to be done at the user's
> > end,
> > > > you would agree
> > > > that people who are on dial-up, may still
> > experience
> > > > problems
> > > > downloading Mb of unnecessary mail coming from
> > the
> > > > mailing list.
> > > >
> > > > I'd suggest to put the normal netiquette in
> > place.
> > > >
> > > > veni
> > > >
> > > > At 08:20 22-10-05  -0400, Joe Baptista wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >On Fri, 21 Oct 2005, Ewan SUTHERLAND wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I think that "fleming" is now a spam word
> > and
> > > > can be filtered out
> > > > >
> > > > >Good idea Sutherland, use your spam filters and
> > > > censor fleming yourselves,
> > > > >do not censor him from the list.
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > > > https://ssl.cpsr.org/mailman/listinfo/governance
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> >
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