[bestbits] [governance] IMPORTANT : Merging IGC with Best Bits

Lee W McKnight lmcknigh at syr.edu
Wed Jan 9 09:37:07 EST 2019 

To fill in a bit of history, if I recall correctly, Avri Doria working from an IETF - style and - meeting-methods tool-box, was instrumental in formalizing IGC procedures back in the day.


By design it was possible to change/modify, but not easy.


Fairness and transparency were rules 1 2 3 etc.


Keeping that procedural and technical infrastructure up after the fracturing/spin-outs of Best Bits and Just Net Coalition, obviously became more difficult after Jeremy Malcolm out of goodness of his heart fatiigue, moved on from maintenance.


Benefits of IGC core procedure is its light-weight, meaning just if folks are on list for 2 months, and pledge allegiance to charter/affirm civil society memebrship, they are voting members; and we just need 2 volunteers to be co-coordinators on staggering terms; plus another fool/I mean kind person like Ian to chair a nomcom when needed.


Of course modifying that charter now would be a thing someone could look into.


BestBits had more formal group membership structure. As I recall.


Anyway, my vote is for a BestBits list person - or a couple - to volunteer to co-coordinate IGC with Arsene, who has been stuck in that role for several years now.


In our collective dreams, if a Best Bits organizational member had the resources to house/revive/support the IGC site, that would be great too.



________________________________
From: bestbits-request at lists.bestbits.net <bestbits-request at lists.bestbits.net> on behalf of ian.peter at ianpeter.com <ian.peter at ianpeter.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2019 1:16:45 AM
To: Nadira Alaraj; Carolina Rossini
Cc: <bestbits at lists.bestbits.net>
Subject: Re[2]: [bestbits] [governance] IMPORTANT : Merging IGC with Best Bits

Actually while this seemed to me the obvious way forward at first - BB emerged out of IGC, so why not get back together again - on reflection there are a few issues.

Firstly I note that the IGC website is down so I cant check things - but from memory IGC had a constitution which we adopted early on which proved very difficult to change, and which may not be altogether suitable for what is needed now. I think this should be looked at before everyone is locked into something that is unsuitable. Can someone get the website up and running?

But in any case, merging I think is necessary. At the very worst, if IGC proves to be a not completely suitable platform going forward, there is always the option to start something else to overcome the problems and get everyone to move on.

The key I think is to work together and to seek the simplest paths forward to do this.

Ian

------ Original Message ------
From: "Nadira Alaraj" <nadira.araj at gmail.com<mailto:nadira.araj at gmail.com>>
To: "Carolina Rossini" <carolina.rossini at gmail.com<mailto:carolina.rossini at gmail.com>>
Cc: "<bestbits at lists.bestbits.net>" <bestbits at lists.bestbits.net<mailto:bestbits at lists.bestbits.net>>
Sent: 9/01/2019 4:17:34 PM
Subject: Re: [bestbits] [governance] IMPORTANT : Merging IGC with Best Bits

Valid questions Carolina,
If you didn't get a replies from members of the founding Bestbits groups then the current membership are none affiliated individuals. Therefore, Ian's proposal is the practical solution.
Best,
Nadira

On Wed, Jan 9, 2019, 06:19 Carolina Rossini <carolina.rossini at gmail.com<mailto:carolina.rossini at gmail.com> wrote:
While Ian’s idea is interesting, I wonder - Who is in the BB list and is not in the IGC list? Why is that the case? Are there barriers/conditions to entry? Are they high or low barriers?

As Ian also noticed, both lists were born from different/specific communities, principles, ways of work, diversity, etc.

Should the IGC’s principles and ways of work be laid out here, so they are handy for folks to review and give their opinion if this is the preferred way to move forward?

It would be interesting to hear specially from those non overlapping folks before moving forward. I feel it would also be relevant to some if the ICG founders commit to be open to potential new input and feedback.

Maybe there is a deal to be striken here to ensure IGC is the correct place.

I don’t want to complicate things, I just want to make sure all are heard and have the tools to express their preference.

Happy new year, everybody!

C

On Tue, Jan 8, 2019 at 9:29 PM Lee W McKnight <lmcknigh at syr.edu<mailto:lmcknigh at syr.edu>> wrote:

I support Ian's idea as well.

________________________________
From: bestbits-request at lists.bestbits.net<mailto:bestbits-request at lists.bestbits.net> <bestbits-request at lists.bestbits.net<mailto:bestbits-request at lists.bestbits.net>> on behalf of Judith Hellerstein <judith at jhellerstein.com<mailto:judith at jhellerstein.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2019 4:53:02 PM
To: bestbits at lists.bestbits.net<mailto:bestbits at lists.bestbits.net>

Subject: Re: [bestbits] [governance] IMPORTANT : Merging IGC with Best Bits


HI,

I support Ian's idea

Judith

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On 1/8/2019 3:35 PM, ian.peter at ianpeter.com<mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com> wrote:
I support the idea of merging. BB served a useful purpose for a while but that time has past.

I suggest the easiest way to do this is for BB to decide to disband, and encourage any remaining members who are not already on the IGC mailing list to join up there.

Ian

------ Original Message ------
From: "Mwendwa Kivuva" <Kivuva at transworldafrica.com<mailto:Kivuva at transworldafrica.com>>
To: "Sheetal Kumar" <sheetal at gp-digital.org<mailto:sheetal at gp-digital.org>>
Cc: "&lt bestbits at lists.bestbits.net&gt<mailto:bestbits at lists.bestbits.net&gt>" <bestbits at lists.bestbits.net<mailto:bestbits at lists.bestbits.net>>
Sent: 9/01/2019 4:52:30 AM
Subject: Re: [bestbits] [governance] IMPORTANT : Merging IGC with Best Bits

A good idea as this is, can we get the genesis of how CS was split into different groupings?

On Tue, Jan 8, 2019, 8:31 PM Sheetal Kumar <sheetal at gp-digital.org<mailto:sheetal at gp-digital.org> wrote:
Dear all,

(dropping IGC as this is just for Bestbits members) Firstly, happy new year! I am writing to follow up on the conversation with regards to a proposal to merge IGC and Bestbits, discussed by those who attended the call organised last December.

As noted earlier, the merger of the two groups was suggested as a way of avoiding duplication of work between groups, pooling resources and streamlining efforts so that they're more focused and coordinated - particularly around key forums and events.

It would be interesting to hear feedback on this idea, positive or otherwise. Otherwise, I suggest another call to decide next steps?

Best
Sheetal.

On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 at 02:46, ian.peter at ianpeter.com<mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com> <ian.peter at ianpeter.com<mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com>> wrote:
Hi Arsene,

Mergers are difficult and imagine that both sides are going to have to change structurally so that they can work together. Both organisations have working rules and practices, changing both sets will be complex and I think unnecessary.

My opinion is that, in this case, BB should just decide to fold - and in doing so, encourage its members to join IGC if they are not already involved.

That's a lot simpler and leaves IGC intact and continuing as an umbrella groups for civil society involvement in internet governance.

(Best Bits copied in). Just suggesting this because I think it is a lot easier.

Ian Peter

------ Original Message ------
From: "Arsène Tungali" <governance at lists.riseup.net<mailto:governance at lists.riseup.net>>
To: "Mueller, Milton L" <milton at gatech.edu<mailto:milton at gatech.edu>>
Cc: "Farzaneh Badiei" <farzaneh.badii at gmail.com<mailto:farzaneh.badii at gmail.com>>; "governance at lists.riseup.net<mailto:governance at lists.riseup.net>" <governance at lists.riseup.net<mailto:governance at lists.riseup.net>>
Sent: 21/12/2018 9:12:28 AM
Subject: Re: [governance] IMPORTANT : Merging IGC with Best Bits

Milton, i think i tried to explain why i was suggesting that. Sorry if that was not clear. The reason is simple: we agreed to take time to discuss the merger issue within the two groups separately. So, if we Cc both lists that means to me we are not doing separately anymore. That’s my understanding and i may be wrong.

Sent from my iPhone

On 20 Dec 2018, at 23:32, Mueller, Milton L <milton at gatech.edu<mailto:milton at gatech.edu>> wrote:

Why segregate the discussions, Arsene?
I don't understand that. It merely perpetuates the problem of a fragmented and uncoordinated civil society!

--MM

-----Original Message-----
From: governance-request at lists.riseup.net<mailto:governance-request at lists.riseup.net> [mailto:governance-<mailto:governance->
request at lists.riseup.net<mailto:request at lists.riseup.net>] On Behalf Of Arsène Tungali
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2018 12:32 AM
To: Farzaneh Badiei <farzaneh.badii at gmail.com<mailto:farzaneh.badii at gmail.com>>
Cc: bestbits at lists.bestbits.net<mailto:bestbits at lists.bestbits.net>&gt &lt <bestbits at lists.bestbits.net<mailto:bestbits at lists.bestbits.net>>;
governance <governance at lists.riseup.net<mailto:governance at lists.riseup.net>>
Subject: Re: [governance] IMPORTANT : Merging IGC with Best Bits

Farzaneh, all,

While we are still discussing and I do appreciate the discussion, may I please
suggest we keep discussions separate in each specific group?
As I said in my original email, the issue of a merger should be discussed
SEPARATELY at the IGC and Best Bits lists.

Each group needs to have an internal discussion.

So, please do not Cc both groups when communicating. Some members are
on both lists and have posting rights on both but others don't, this may lead
to having fragmented pieces of emails when everyone is responding.

Hope this makes sense.

Thanks,
Arsene

2018-12-17 23:33 UTC+02:00, farzaneh badii <farzaneh.badii at gmail.com<mailto:farzaneh.badii at gmail.com>>:
Thanks Arsene.

We need to decide on merging IGC and BestBits. The suggestion comes
from the fact that we have not been active much during the past year.
Also fragmented efforts are a strain on resources. Having multiple
elections and multiple groups to coordinate (with really minimal
differences) and then not be active at all for a year is not really
recommendable.

De told us that apparently there is some kind of consensus method if I
am not mistaken. De, is there a documented approach?

I think the most important is to discuss why BestBits was created and
whether the reasons still stand and how BestBits members feel about
the merge. Maybe the ones with strong objections can be convinced,
maybe not.
Lets have the conversation. If we do not see a strong objection
(multiple organizations, individuals object and give reasons as to why
BestBits should remain even if dormant), then we can decide on the
merge. If there are strong objections, then we will not go with the merge.

From what I see from BestBits website, the following individuals are
at the steering committee of BestBits:


- Nighat Dad
- Poncelet Ileleji
- Renata Ribeiro
- Dave Burstein
- Imran Ahmed Shah [second term of election]
- Antonella Perini [co-opted by committee]

Besbits CSCG Representatives

- Claudio Lucena Neto (2018-2019)
- Sheetal Kumar (2017-2018)


Does this list still stand? Do the steering committee members of
BestBits and the reps on CSCG would like to weigh in?

I know Sheetal was on the call. Would be good to hear from others.





Farzaneh


On Mon, Dec 17, 2018 at 9:00 AM Arsène Tungali
<governance at lists.riseup.net<mailto:governance at lists.riseup.net>>
wrote:

Hi everyone,

You have probably seen this already on a different thread but thought
it well to have this discussion solely on the IGC list (as I expect
Best Bits to do the same), that's why i started this thread hoping to
hear from you on this important question.

This need for merging was raised by some IGC members during a civil
society call that had mostly IGC and Best Bits participants; many of
whom are both IGC and Best Bits (BB) members. The call happened last
week and Farzaneh offered to share the link to the recording.

I will not go into much details about the rationale but would welcome
anyone to weigh in and share their reasoning on whether or not we
should merge both lists. We will need to also answer the question on
how (who is doing what?) will this happen? Is the IGC going to become
BB or the latter becoming IGC? Or are we working towards a different
group where members of both groups will all be added?

This brings back to my memory the whole hassle we had to migrate
(SAVE?) this list and allow us to have this discussion list (which
hasn't been quite active for a few months but where many feel safe to
share IG related updates). So i hope we discuss and take into account
the technical cost of the merging process (should it happen).

I am also not sure how we will gauge consensus about this question on
this list? Should we vote? How long do we take to decide? Should we
consult IGC 'founders' or former Co-coordinators separately and ask
them what they think?

During the call, Bruna and I offered to have a decision by
mid-January and we hope this is realistic given the holiday season.
We will then report to the group.

I just wanted to throw this all here and would REALLY appreciate a
discussion that will help us move forward and come to a conclusion.

Best regards,
Arsene
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