process Re: [bestbits] [Meeting Report]: friday meeting with fadi et all

[Kivuva]

On 31 October 2013 10:32, Tapani Tarvainen <tapani.tarvainen at effi.org>wrote:

> While I wouldn't put in quite as strong terms as Avri,
> I tend to agree -- I also dislike secret lists.
>
> Sometimes closed lists are unavoidable, but I see little
> need for such here, rather the contrary: it would eat
> our legitimacy, make it seem we don't act the way we preach.
>
> I would have no problem with a closed-but-public list,
> i.e., one with restricted subscription but publicly
> visible archives, but I don't see much need for one here.
>
> But what we're talking about is a closed list without
> public archives, with the explicit intent to prevent
> outsiders from seeing what's being discussed.
> I don't take an absolutist position against one, might
> even join (if allowed), but I advise strongly against it.
>

Remember the entities we are working to influence are playing their cards
below the table. As CS exposes it's cards, it becomes easy to be countered
and defeated.



> (A really secret lists, whose very existence is not
> public knowledge, I would want nothing to do with.
> Don't tell me.)
>
> --
> Tapani
>
> On Oct 31 00:56, Avri Doria (avri at ella.com) wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I tend to beleive that anything coming out of a secret list is suspect.
>  It might just be the machinations of the extremists on a list who can
> never achieve consensus in the clear light of day and who don't know how to
> work nicely with others.  And when civil society starts to doing it is a
> beginning of the end of a group's usefulness.
> >
> > In practice I, for one, will never be able to accept a secret cabal's
> marching orders and will never accept the validity of anything that comes
> out of such a conspiracy.
> >
> > We don't beat them by becoming like them.  If we start acting like a
> police state, which starts with conspiratorial secrecy and intimidation, we
> are lost as a useful part of the Ig dialogue.  Really sorry to see this
> list already take that turn.
> >
> > avri
> >
>


Mwendwa Kivuva
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/bestbits/attachments/20131031/a1a20976/attachment.htm>