[governance] RE: [bestbits] Rousseff & Chehade: Brazil will host world event on Internet governance in 2014
parminder
parminder at itforchange.net
Fri Oct 11 02:07:18 EDT 2013
It is here
http://igcaucus.org:9001/p/Brazil2014
Just a word of caution - we dont want to make this an ominbus document
of demands. At this stage we need a clear, crisp and strong letter, of a
few sentences, that Brazilian President or some top guy would actually
read, and not get confusing messages. I am not saying we should not say
whatever we definitively want to say - but be clear and short, that is all.
parminder
On Friday 11 October 2013 11:15 AM, Rafik Dammak wrote:
> Hi Parminder,
>
> sorry I am not really getting the proposal you are developing here?
> can you please clarify?
>
>
> Rafik
>
>
> 2013/10/11 parminder <parminder at itforchange.net
> <mailto:parminder at itforchange.net>>
>
>
> Since as argued below, in our judgement, time is strategically of
> essense, some of us would keep working on a posible text over
> today and try to present something to IGC and BB by the end of the
> day.... We do very much hope IGC and BB can sign on it by
> consensus, but it doesnt happen we would open it to organisations
> and people who want to sign it (sorry, this is a practice I
> normally do not like so much, but I dont think it is ok that we
> can produce a statement to critique a UN process is just no time,
> with all kind of ambiguous languages, and on such an important -
> potential game changer - initiative from a developing country, a
> paralysis seems to be setting in)...
>
> parminder
>
>
> On Friday 11 October 2013 11:02 AM, parminder wrote:
>> Well let then that be as it has to be... "There is /a tide/ in
>> the /affairs of men/. Which, taken at the flood, leads on to
>> fortune"...
>>
>> Leadership doesnt come searching for you, you have to seize
>> it.... President Rousseff was made, what would have perhaps been,
>> somewhat a regular kind of offer. She seized it with both her
>> hands, even announced the like month etc.. That is what gave it
>> such a sudden high prominence, and people are celebrating
>> Rousseff, and somewhere, if it plays its cards well, Brazil have
>> now got an edge.... which it can use to further its interest...
>>
>> Civil society also is supposed to be representing some interests
>> - real interests of real people, who are most marginalised, and
>> we have to take our own responsibility seriously . We cannot be
>> eternally paralysed, which hurts these interests. If there are
>> real differences of views, well, that counts.... But a permanent
>> simple wait-and-watch attitude would do us no good...
>>
>> Lets analyse what we have here.... Or what risks we run and what
>> gains we can make... And others must also contribute what they
>> think are risks or advantages.... merely saying we are not sure
>> yet, tells talk more, do face to face and all,,,, Such stuff I
>> think, just my own view, is not the appropriate response.
>>
>> ICANN, either on its own or tech community's behalf tries to cosy
>> up to the Brazilians (perhaps in anticipation of the new proposal
>> for democratising global IG that Rousseff said Brazil will soon
>> present - BTW, the day of the annual discussion on WSIS and IG
>> issues in the UN GA is 22nd Oct, but whatever...) . It proposes a
>> real dialogue to see what needs to be changed about the global
>> governance of the Internet. Rousseff immediately seizes the
>> initiative, and even declares a possible timeline, just like
>> that, off-hand.... That is leadership material. That is all that
>> has happened, and that is all anyone knows has happened. There is
>> nothing hidden that civil society may suddenly become complicit
>> to if they support this proposal.
>>
>> In supporting it, we would only be saying -
>> (1) yes, we agree that 'a real dialogue' on what needs to change
>> in global governance of the Internet should take place with some
>> urgency,
>> (2) such a dialogue should take place in an open and not a
>> hidden manner,
>> (3) it is certainly encouraging that the initiative comes from
>> one of the key developing nations - the main votaries of a 'real
>> change' - and ICANN or the technical community - seen as the main
>> symbol and defender of status quo,and that
>> (4) we want civil society to be equally there in the middle of
>> all action, as the dialogue shapes and takes place...
>>
>> Nothing more and nothing less. (If anything sinister about the
>> proposed meeting surfaces at any later time we can as publicly
>> withdraw our support, saying this is not at all what we
>> bargained for)
>>
>> So either people here agree to the above, and we can write a
>> statement, or they dont... This is the time to do the statement,
>> when people are still wondering what kind of initiative it really
>> is, and with what implications. Throw in our hat - and well, kind
>> of make this thing somewhat trilateral from its current
>> bi-lateral status (Brazil - ICANN tech community) We may not
>> succeed, but we must try. .... In a few weeks, the initiative
>> would already be too solidified in fact, or in people's mind for
>> civil society support to have this kind of impact....
>>
>> Parminder
>>
>>
>> On Friday 11 October 2013 05:56 AM, Ian Peter wrote:
>>> I agree with Deborah – lets wait till a bit more information
>>> emerges. We can draft a letter which is more meaningful when we
>>> have a better idea of the scope, objectives, possible outcomes,
>>> likely attendees, and possible processes for the conference.
>>> It’s quite likely more information will emerge in the next week
>>> or so, therefore I think we should discuss at Bali and before
>>> then try to find out a little more.
>>> Ian Peter
>>> *From:* Deborah Brown <mailto:deborah at accessnow.org>
>>> *Sent:* Friday, October 11, 2013 10:35 AM
>>> *To:* Nnenna Nwakanma <mailto:nnenna75 at gmail.com>
>>> *Cc:* mailto:bestbits at lists.bestbits.net
>>> *Subject:* Re: [governance] RE: [bestbits] Rousseff & Chehade:
>>> Brazil will host world event on Internet governance in 2014
>>> Dear all,
>>> I see the advantage of engaging early on this, but I'm a bit
>>> concerned that we are rushing unnecessarily to finalize a letter
>>> before many of us travel and are otherwise overstretched. I
>>> wonder if it might make more sense to continue this discussion
>>> online and take advantage of the in-person meetings in Bali, for
>>> those of us attending, to develop a CS agenda. Also, as others
>>> have pointed out, we know so little about the initiative at this
>>> point.
>>> The draft text (available here:
>>> http://igcaucus.org:9001/p/Brazil2014) does not seem to capture
>>> the cautious optimism that a number of people have expressed. I
>>> also have concerns about providing our "strongest endorsement"
>>> of the Marco Civil process, when that process is not yet
>>> complete. Of course the text of the letter could change
>>> dramatically in just a few hours ;)
>>> I find Nnenna's approach to be sound, but it does imply a follow
>>> on communication with more concrete proposals. I wonder if it
>>> might be more effective to streamline our communication to the
>>> Brazilian president and head of ICANN.
>>> To sum up, I see clear advantages to both "striking while the
>>> iron is hot" and a more cautious approach. But given the factors
>>> I mentioned above, I would support taking some extra time if we
>>> need it. In any case, I'm looking forward to hearing others'
>>> ideas and continuing the discussion around this important
>>> development.
>>> Best regards,
>>> Deborah
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 3:41 PM, Nnenna Nwakanma
>>> <nnenna75 at gmail.com <mailto:nnenna75 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear all
>>>
>>> 1. I do believe that if any support there is, from the
>>> civil society, it is support for an IDEA that "appears"
>>> more open and inclusive that the current IGF
>>> 2. So I am cautious about writing a letter that may be in
>>> any way understood as "Civil Society lauds Dilma and
>>> ICANN's push".
>>> 3. A short letter informing that global Civil Society that
>>> are working on, concerned about and/or interested in IG
>>> and Internet issues intend to play key roles in the
>>> summit.
>>> 4. I believe we should communicate key values we plan to
>>> pursue in the summit
>>> 5. Underline the central idea of multistakeholder
>>> participation
>>> 6. Say that we are beginnning discussions about the diverse
>>> roles that CS can play and that some time in Bali will
>>> be dedicated to the issue during the BB meeting in Bali.
>>>
>>> If we recall, workshop 127 in Bali will be discussing the MS
>>> Selection processes, and I do hope, personally that we can
>>> use that opportunity to sharpen the focus. A reminder of
>>> the WS is on
>>> http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/wks2013/workshop_2013_status_list_view.php?xpsltipq_je=127
>>>
>>> I am traveling in unconnected rural areas but will be back
>>> online and I'm happy to contribute language if any text
>>> begins to surface. In case I do not, here are my ideas:
>>>
>>> 1. Say what exactly it is the global CS is supporting,
>>> which is the idea, and not the institutions
>>> 2. Make a clear statement on our willingness to engage
>>> 3. Recall that our engagement is based on the
>>> Multistakeholder principle
>>> 4. Inform that discussions have started and are ongoing
>>> 5. Say we will be coming up with ore concrete engagement
>>> proposals
>>> 6. Requesto have fundamental info, if available, to help us
>>> scope the idea itself.
>>>
>>> Best
>>>
>>> Nnenna
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 7:01 PM, Joana Varon
>>> <joana at varonferraz.com <mailto:joana at varonferraz.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear people,
>>>
>>> For the level of information I have (which is basically:
>>> Brazil and ICANN have proposed to host a Summit on
>>> Internet after April - coincidentally or right after the
>>> meeting on Sharm el Sheik and before the presidential
>>> elections period), I don't feel comfortable about
>>> writing a letter congratulating for something I dont
>>> really know what it is.
>>>
>>> But I do truly support Anja's suggestion to start
>>> working on our agenda online and, with a potential to be
>>> much richer, during our several meetings in Bali. (what
>>> do we want from all this besides participating in the
>>> Summit??)
>>>
>>> In the meanwhile, I rather take breath to understand and
>>> discuss this with the Brazilian government and Brazilian
>>> colleagues from civil society or other sectors. And see
>>> what is the final draft of Marco Civil that the
>>> government will bring to our table very soon (if it
>>> truly endorses all the principles she has mentioned at
>>> the UNGA).
>>>
>>> I'm sorry if it's a bit of a skeptic or over cautious
>>> position, but I really need more inputs to see the big
>>> picture.
>>> All the best
>>>
>>> joana
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 2:59 PM, michael gurstein
>>> <gurstein at gmail.com <mailto:gurstein at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> +1
>>>
>>> M
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: bestbits-request at lists.bestbits.net
>>> <mailto:bestbits-request at lists.bestbits.net>
>>> [mailto:bestbits-request at lists.bestbits.net
>>> <mailto:bestbits-request at lists.bestbits.net>] On
>>> Behalf Of Carlos A. Afonso
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 10:12 AM
>>> To: McTim
>>> Cc: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> <mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>; michael
>>> gurstein; Lee W McKnight; Rafik
>>> Dammak; Joana Varon; <,bestbits at lists.bestbits.net
>>> <mailto:bestbits at lists.bestbits.net>>,; NCSG List
>>> Subject: Re: [governance] RE: [bestbits] Rousseff &
>>> Chehade: Brazil will
>>> host world event on Internet governance in 2014
>>>
>>> Dear compa McT,
>>>
>>> You being a rigorous techie, maybe you will not
>>> change your logical view...
>>> :) And I understand there is a lot of people in all
>>> sectors who feel
>>> disturbed by the emerging presence of Brazil and its
>>> concrete proposals to
>>> finally move on.
>>>
>>> At the very beginning Fadi describes the motivation
>>> -- Rousseff's statement
>>> at the UN, her clear adherence to the basic
>>> principles most of civil society
>>> defends (which she has repeated several times in her
>>> radio program and her
>>> twitter @dilmabr), and her proposal to build a
>>> planetary framework of
>>> rights. This did not come out of the blue, from a
>>> meeting of IP addressers
>>> in a wonderful city called Montevideo. Do you think
>>> Fadi just dropped by the
>>> presidential door in Brasilia, knocked and entered
>>> to sell that proposal? :)
>>>
>>> Anyway, it is relevant to understand that this is
>>> not a proposal for yet
>>> another Icann meeting, or a reedition of the UN
>>> chatting space called IGF,
>>> as both Dilma and Fadi made it very clear. It is a
>>> major achievement that
>>> that motivation brought Icann to colead this effort
>>> jointly with BR.
>>>
>>> All the more so because, as you know, there are
>>> strong sectors within the
>>> government who would love to bring the root-zone to
>>> the purview of the ITU,
>>> who hate Icann, who do not like the
>>> pluriparticipative model of governance
>>> we defend, and who are basically associated with the
>>> transnational telecom
>>> oligopoly which controls the main networks in BR.
>>> Dilma is courageously up against a huge wall here,
>>> to defend those
>>> principles, and receiving Fadi and emerging from the
>>> meeting with thar
>>> proposal was a major political milestone for her in
>>> those internal disputes
>>> as well.
>>>
>>> [] fraterno
>>>
>>> --c.a.
>>>
>>> On 10/10/2013 10:14 AM, McTim wrote:
>>> > At 55 seconds in, Fadi says:
>>> > "Her Excellency President Rousseff has accepted
>>> our invitation that we
>>> > hold next year a Global Summit"
>>> >
>>> > Seem fairly clear to me.
>>> >
>>> > On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 9:10 AM, Carlos A. Afonso
>>> <ca at cafonso.ca <mailto:ca at cafonso.ca>> wrote:
>>> >> McT, maybe you should watch the video a few times
>>> more... :)
>>> >>
>>> >> --c.a.
>>> >>
>>> >> On 10/10/2013 09:57 AM, McTim wrote:
>>> >>> On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 11:50 PM, michael
>>> gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:gurstein at gmail.com>>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>>> Why so pessimistic and cynical everyone.. I may
>>> be wrong but this
>>> >>>> isn't just about ICANN, although hats off to
>>> Fadi for getting this
>>> >>>> going and putting that into play.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I'm not pessimistic or cynical.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> But I would be extremely surprised if the Pres.
>>> of Brazil is going
>>> >>>> to invite the world to Rio in April next year
>>> to discuss names and
>>> >>>> numbers. Rather my reading is that she is
>>> by-passing the quite
>>> >>>> evident log-jam at the ITU, the frivolities of
>>> the IGF, the now
>>> >>>> discredited "Internet Freedom" crusade and the
>>> status quo which it
>>> >>>> was intended to cast into concrete errr. (non)
>>> rules and regs.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> It appears to me, after watching the video again
>>> several times that
>>> >>> it is ICANN (and I assume the rest of the
>>> Montevideoans) that are
>>> >>> spearheading this. In other words the idea of
>>> the Summit comes from
>>> >>> the T&A folks, not Brasilia.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> --
>>>
>>> Joana Varon Ferraz
>>> @joana_varon
>>> PGP 0x016B8E73
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Deborah Brown
>>> Senior Policy Analyst
>>> Access | accessnow.org <http://accessnow.org>
>>> rightscon.org <http://rightscon.org>
>>>
>>> @deblebrown
>>> PGP 0x5EB4727D
>>
>
>
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