[governance] RE: [bestbits] Rousseff & Chehade: Brazil will host world event on Internet governance in 2014

Rafik Dammak rafik.dammak at gmail.com
Fri Oct 11 01:45:14 EDT 2013 

Hi Parminder,

sorry I am not really getting the proposal you are developing here? can you
please clarify?


Rafik


2013/10/11 parminder <parminder at itforchange.net>

>
> Since as argued below, in our judgement, time is strategically of essense,
> some of us would keep working on a posible text over today and try to
> present something to IGC and BB by the end of the day.... We do very much
> hope IGC and BB can sign on it by consensus, but it doesnt happen we would
> open it to organisations and people who want to sign it (sorry, this is a
> practice I normally do not like so much, but I dont think it is ok that we
> can produce a statement to critique a UN process is just no time, with all
> kind of ambiguous languages, and on such an important - potential game
> changer - initiative  from a developing country, a paralysis seems to be
> setting in)...
>
> parminder
>
>
>  On Friday 11 October 2013 11:02 AM, parminder wrote:
>
> Well let then that be as it has to be... "There is *a tide* in the *affairs
> of men*. Which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune"...
>
> Leadership doesnt come searching for you, you have to seize it....
> President Rousseff was made, what would have perhaps been, somewhat a
> regular kind of offer. She seized it with both her hands, even announced
> the like month etc.. That is what gave it such a sudden high prominence,
> and people are celebrating Rousseff, and somewhere, if it plays its cards
> well, Brazil have now got an edge.... which it can use to further its
> interest...
>
> Civil society also is supposed to be representing some interests - real
> interests of real people, who are most marginalised, and we have to take
> our own responsibility seriously . We cannot be eternally paralysed, which
> hurts these interests. If there are real differences of views, well, that
> counts.... But a permanent simple wait-and-watch attitude would do us no
> good...
>
> Lets analyse what we have here.... Or what risks we run and what gains we
> can make...  And others must also contribute what they think are risks or
> advantages.... merely saying we are not sure yet, tells talk more, do face
> to face and all,,,, Such stuff I think, just my own view, is not the
> appropriate response.
>
> ICANN, either on its own or tech community's behalf tries to cosy up to
> the Brazilians (perhaps in anticipation of the new proposal for
> democratising global IG that Rousseff said Brazil will soon present - BTW,
> the day of the annual discussion on WSIS and IG issues in the UN GA is 22nd
> Oct, but whatever...) . It proposes a real dialogue to see what needs to be
> changed about the global governance of the Internet. Rousseff immediately
> seizes the initiative, and even declares a possible timeline, just like
> that, off-hand.... That is leadership material. That is all that has
> happened, and that is all anyone knows has happened. There is nothing
> hidden that civil society may suddenly become complicit to if they support
> this proposal.
>
> In supporting it, we would only be saying -
> (1) yes, we agree that 'a real dialogue' on what needs to change in global
> governance of the Internet should take place with some urgency,
> (2) such a dialogue should take place in an open and not  a hidden manner,
> (3) it is certainly encouraging that the initiative comes from one of the
> key developing nations - the main votaries of a 'real change' - and ICANN
> or the technical community - seen as the main symbol and defender of status
> quo,and that
> (4) we want civil society to be equally there in the middle of all action,
> as the dialogue shapes and takes place...
>
> Nothing more and nothing less. (If anything sinister about the proposed
> meeting surfaces at any later time we can as publicly withdraw our support,
> saying this is  not at all what we bargained for)
>
> So either people here agree to the above, and we can write a statement, or
> they dont... This is the time to do the statement, when people are still
> wondering what kind of initiative it really is, and with what implications.
> Throw in our hat - and well, kind of make this thing somewhat trilateral
> from its current bi-lateral status (Brazil - ICANN tech community) We may
> not succeed, but we must try. .... In a few weeks, the initiative would
> already be too solidified in fact, or in people's mind for civil society
> support to have this kind of impact....
>
> Parminder
>
>
> On Friday 11 October 2013 05:56 AM, Ian Peter wrote:
>
>  I agree with Deborah – lets wait till a bit more information emerges. We
> can draft a letter which is more meaningful when we have a better idea of
> the scope, objectives, possible outcomes, likely attendees, and possible
> processes for the conference. It’s quite likely more information will
> emerge in the next week or so, therefore I think we should discuss at Bali
> and before then try to find out a little more.
>
> Ian Peter
>
>  *From:* Deborah Brown <deborah at accessnow.org>
> *Sent:* Friday, October 11, 2013 10:35 AM
> *To:* Nnenna Nwakanma <nnenna75 at gmail.com>
> *Cc:* mailto:bestbits at lists.bestbits.net <bestbits at lists.bestbits.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [governance] RE: [bestbits] Rousseff & Chehade: Brazil
> will host world event on Internet governance in 2014
>
>  Dear all,
>
> I see the advantage of engaging early on this, but I'm a bit concerned
> that we are rushing unnecessarily to finalize a letter before many of us
> travel and are otherwise overstretched. I wonder if it might make more
> sense to continue this discussion online and take advantage of the
> in-person meetings in Bali, for those of us attending, to develop a CS
> agenda. Also, as others have pointed out, we know so little about the
> initiative at this point.
>
> The draft text (available here: http://igcaucus.org:9001/p/Brazil2014)
> does not seem to capture the cautious optimism that a number of people have
> expressed. I also have concerns about providing our "strongest endorsement"
> of the Marco Civil process, when that process is not yet complete. Of
> course the text of the letter could change dramatically in just a few hours
> ;)
>
> I find Nnenna's approach to be sound, but it does imply a follow on
> communication with more concrete proposals. I wonder if it might be more
> effective to streamline our communication to the Brazilian president and
> head of ICANN.
>
> To sum up, I see clear advantages to both "striking while the iron is hot"
> and a more cautious approach. But given the factors I mentioned above, I
> would support taking some extra time if we need it. In any case, I'm
> looking forward to hearing others' ideas and continuing the discussion
> around this important development.
>
> Best regards,
> Deborah
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 3:41 PM, Nnenna Nwakanma <nnenna75 at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>>   Dear all
>>
>>
>>    1. I do believe that if any support there is, from the civil society,
>>    it is support for an IDEA that "appears" more open and inclusive that the
>>    current IGF
>>    2. So I am cautious about writing a letter that may be in any way
>>    understood as  "Civil Society lauds Dilma and ICANN's push".
>>    3. A short letter informing that global Civil Society that are
>>    working on, concerned about and/or interested in IG and Internet issues
>>    intend to play key roles in the summit.
>>    4. I believe we should communicate key values we plan to pursue in
>>    the summit
>>    5. Underline the central idea of multistakeholder participation
>>    6. Say that we are beginnning discussions about the diverse roles
>>    that CS can play and that some time in Bali will be dedicated to the issue
>>    during the BB meeting in Bali.
>>
>>
>>  If we recall, workshop 127 in Bali will be discussing the MS Selection
>> processes, and I do hope, personally that we can use that opportunity to
>> sharpen the focus.  A reminder of the WS is on
>> http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/wks2013/workshop_2013_status_list_view.php?xpsltipq_je=127
>>
>>  I am traveling in unconnected rural areas but will be back online and
>> I'm happy to contribute language if any text begins to surface.  In case I
>> do not, here are my ideas:
>>
>>    1. Say what exactly it is the global CS is supporting, which is the
>>    idea, and not the institutions
>>    2. Make a clear statement on our willingness to engage
>>    3. Recall that our engagement is based on the Multistakeholder
>>    principle
>>    4. Inform that discussions have started and are ongoing
>>    5. Say we will be coming up with ore concrete engagement proposals
>>    6. Requesto have fundamental info, if available, to help us scope the
>>    idea itself.
>>
>> Best
>>
>>
>>
>> Nnenna
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 7:01 PM, Joana Varon <joana at varonferraz.com>wrote:
>>
>>>   Dear people,
>>>
>>>  For the level of information I have (which is basically: Brazil and
>>> ICANN have proposed to host a Summit on Internet after April -
>>> coincidentally or right after the meeting on Sharm el Sheik and before the
>>> presidential elections period), I don't feel comfortable about writing a
>>> letter congratulating for something I dont really know what it is.
>>>
>>>  But I do truly support Anja's suggestion to start working on our agenda
>>> online and, with a potential to be much richer, during our several meetings
>>> in Bali. (what do we want from all this besides participating in the
>>> Summit??)
>>>
>>>  In the meanwhile, I rather take breath to understand and discuss this
>>> with the Brazilian government and Brazilian colleagues from civil society
>>> or other sectors. And see what is the final draft of Marco Civil that the
>>> government will bring to our table very soon (if it truly endorses all the
>>> principles she has mentioned at the UNGA).
>>>
>>>  I'm sorry if it's a bit of a skeptic or over cautious position, but I
>>> really need more inputs to see the big picture.
>>>
>>> All the best
>>>
>>> joana
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 2:59 PM, michael gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> +1
>>>>
>>>> M
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: bestbits-request at lists.bestbits.net
>>>> [mailto:bestbits-request at lists.bestbits.net] On Behalf Of Carlos A.
>>>> Afonso
>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 10:12 AM
>>>> To: McTim
>>>> Cc: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; michael gurstein; Lee W McKnight;
>>>> Rafik
>>>> Dammak; Joana Varon; &lt,bestbits at lists.bestbits.net&gt,; NCSG List
>>>> Subject: Re: [governance] RE: [bestbits] Rousseff & Chehade: Brazil will
>>>> host world event on Internet governance in 2014
>>>>
>>>>  Dear compa McT,
>>>>
>>>> You being a rigorous techie, maybe you will not change your logical
>>>> view...
>>>> :) And I understand there is a lot of people in all sectors who feel
>>>> disturbed by the emerging presence of Brazil and its concrete proposals
>>>> to
>>>> finally move on.
>>>>
>>>> At the very beginning Fadi describes the motivation -- Rousseff's
>>>> statement
>>>> at the UN, her clear adherence to the basic principles most of civil
>>>> society
>>>> defends (which she has repeated several times in her radio program and
>>>> her
>>>> twitter @dilmabr), and her proposal to build a planetary framework of
>>>> rights. This did not come out of the blue, from a meeting of IP
>>>> addressers
>>>> in a wonderful city called Montevideo. Do you think Fadi just dropped
>>>> by the
>>>> presidential door in Brasilia, knocked and entered to sell that
>>>> proposal? :)
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, it is relevant to understand that this is not a proposal for yet
>>>> another Icann meeting, or a reedition of the UN chatting space called
>>>> IGF,
>>>> as both Dilma and Fadi made it very clear. It is a major achievement
>>>> that
>>>> that motivation brought Icann to colead this effort jointly with BR.
>>>>
>>>> All the more so because, as you know, there are strong sectors within
>>>> the
>>>> government who would love to bring the root-zone to the purview of the
>>>> ITU,
>>>> who hate Icann, who do not like the pluriparticipative model of
>>>> governance
>>>> we defend, and who are basically associated with the transnational
>>>> telecom
>>>> oligopoly which controls the main networks in BR.
>>>> Dilma is courageously up against a huge wall here, to defend those
>>>> principles, and receiving Fadi and emerging from the meeting with thar
>>>> proposal was a major political milestone for her in those internal
>>>> disputes
>>>> as well.
>>>>
>>>> [] fraterno
>>>>
>>>> --c.a.
>>>>
>>>> On 10/10/2013 10:14 AM, McTim wrote:
>>>> > At 55 seconds in, Fadi says:
>>>> > "Her Excellency President Rousseff has accepted our invitation that we
>>>> > hold next year a Global Summit"
>>>> >
>>>> > Seem fairly clear to me.
>>>> >
>>>> > On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 9:10 AM, Carlos A. Afonso <ca at cafonso.ca>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >> McT, maybe you should watch the video a few times more... :)
>>>> >>
>>>> >> --c.a.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On 10/10/2013 09:57 AM, McTim wrote:
>>>> >>> On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 11:50 PM, michael gurstein <
>>>> gurstein at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>>> Why so pessimistic and cynical everyone.. I may be wrong but this
>>>> >>>> isn't just about ICANN, although hats off to Fadi for getting this
>>>>  >>>> going and putting that into play.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> I'm not pessimistic or cynical.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> But I would be extremely surprised if the Pres. of Brazil is going
>>>> >>>> to invite the world to Rio in April next year to discuss names and
>>>> >>>> numbers. Rather my reading is that she is by-passing the quite
>>>> >>>> evident log-jam at the ITU, the frivolities of the IGF, the now
>>>> >>>> discredited "Internet Freedom" crusade and the status quo which it
>>>>  >>>> was intended to cast into concrete errr. (non) rules and regs.
>>>>  >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> It appears to me, after watching the video again several times that
>>>> >>> it is ICANN (and I assume the rest of the Montevideoans) that are
>>>> >>> spearheading this.  In other words the idea of the Summit comes from
>>>> >>> the T&A folks, not Brasilia.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  --
>>> --
>>>
>>> Joana Varon Ferraz
>>> @joana_varon
>>> PGP 0x016B8E73
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
>  Deborah Brown
> Senior Policy Analyst
> Access | accessnow.org
> rightscon.org
>
>  @deblebrown
> PGP 0x5EB4727D
>
>
>
>
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