[bestbits] Reform surveillance

Tue Dec 10 16:11:10 EST 2013

+1
JC
(lost in translation - or - don't follow me I'm lost too)

Le 10 déc. 2013 à 22:01, michael gurstein a écrit :

> Hi Kevin,
> 
> I'm not sure that I understand what it is you are saying here. Could you
> elaborate a bit. (for example "data being sought" ... sought by who?
> "collected" ... collected by who? And so on...
> 
> Tks,
> 
> M
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bestbits-request at lists.bestbits.net
> [mailto:bestbits-request at lists.bestbits.net] On Behalf Of Kevin Bankston
> Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 2:58 AM
> To: genekimmelman at gmail.com
> Cc: mishi at softwarefreedom.org; mgodwin at INTERNEWS.ORG;
> bestbits at lists.bestbits.net
> Subject: Re: [bestbits] Reform surveillance
> 
> Since 2005 when news about the NSA programs first broke, through to today,
> I've yet to see anything reported anywhere about any of the data being
> sought being data that would not have been collected but for targeted
> advertising needs.  Have I missed something?
> 
> On Dec 10, 2013, at 11:02 AM, "genekimmelman at gmail.com"
> <genekimmelman at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> If the supply side insists on personal information for targeted
> advertising,  isn't that entangled with the data governments seek? 
>> 
>> 
>> -------- Original message --------
>> From: Mishi Choudhary <mishi at softwarefreedom.org>
>> Date: 12/10/2013 10:52 AM (GMT-05:00)
>> To: "Mike Godwin (mgodwin at INTERNEWS.ORG)" 
>> <mgodwin at INTERNEWS.ORG>,bestbits at lists.bestbits.net
>> Subject: Re: [bestbits] Reform surveillance
>> 
>> 
>> I agree with Mike that its crucial to reduce the "demand-side" by 
>> regulating government access but I think the suppliers of data are not 
>> as informed as they should and could be and the companies have more to 
>> do at their end.
>> 
>> 
>> On 12/09/2013 07:10 PM, Mike Godwin (mgodwin at INTERNEWS.ORG) wrote:
>>> Mishi quotes the Times:
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> "While the Internet companies fight to maintain authority over 
>>>> their customers¹ data, their business models depend on collecting 
>>>> the same information that the spy agencies want, and they have long 
>>>> cooperated with the government to some extent by handing over data 
>>>> in response to legal requests.
>>> This statement strikes me as disingenuously oversimplistic on the 
>>> Times¹s part ‹ specifically, in saying that the Internet companies 
>>> are collecting ³the same information that the spy agencies want.²  
>>> Yes, the agencies want the data the companies have, but the 
>>> companies are gathering data about consumption and viewing patterns, 
>>> primarily. What the agencies want is traffic and association 
>>> analysis, and they know they can draw inferences if they have large
> datasets.
>>> 
>>> This may seem like a subtle distinction, but really it¹s not. It¹s 
>>> like saying ³I listen to changes in the tone of your voice when you 
>>> speak to me, and so does the snooping spy who wiretaps your phone, 
>>> and therefore, implicitly, the spy and I are both culpable somehow.²
>>> 
>>> What I perceive in all this is an attempt to muddy the issue and 
>>> delegitimize the internet companies¹ sincere efforts to build and/or 
>>> restore consumer trust. I¹m critical of the companies from time to 
>>> time (and there are times when I¹m mostly critical of what all the 
>>> companies are doing), but to me the real analysis here is that 
>>> governments have opportunistically taken advantage of what the 
>>> companies have been gathering, most of the time in good faith, from
> users.
>>> 
>>>> The new principles outlined by the companies contain little 
>>>> information and few promises about their own practices, which 
>>>> privacy advocates say contribute to the government¹s desire to tap 
>>>> into the companies¹ data systems.
>>>> 
>>>> ³The companies are placing their users at risk by collecting and 
>>>> retaining so much information,² said Marc Rotenberg, president and 
>>>> executive director of the Electronic Privacy Information Center, a 
>>>> nonprofit research and advocacy organization. ³As long as this much 
>>>> personal data is collected and kept by these companies, they are 
>>>> always going to be the target of government collection efforts.²
>>> I take Marc at his word, as always, but the fact is that if the 
>>> companies cut their data gathering in half ‹ or even by a factor of 
>>> 10 or 100 ‹ governments will want to engage in bulk collection and 
>>> interception. The key approach, in my view, is to try to reduce the 
>>> demand-side (by regulating what governments can do) rather conflate 
>>> it with the supply side (the fact that commercial enterprises gather 
>>> data from actual and potential customers (or for them).
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ‹Mike, speaking only for myself
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Warm Regards
>> Mishi Choudhary, Esq.
>> Legal Director
>> Software Freedom Law Center
>> 1995 Broadway Floor 17
>> New York, NY-10023
>> (tel) 212-461-1912
>> (fax) 212-580-0898
>> www.softwarefreedom.org
>> 
>> 
>> Executive Director
>> SFLC.IN
>> K-9, Second Floor
>> Jangpura Extn.
>> New Delhi-110014
>> (tel) +91-11-43587126
>> (fax) +91-11-24323530
>> www.sflc.in
>> 
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