[governance] Reviving IGC: Merging Bestbits in, IGF Day zero event and other subjects
parminder
parminder at itforchange.net
Wed Jul 17 12:55:03 EDT 2019
Bruno andArsene
I am sorry, I want to be most respectful, engaged etc, but one can say
something only that many times, and we all have limited time.
A coordinator is before all the custodian and implementer of the
constitutional document of the concerned group/ community, here the IGc
charter...
I have now many times pointed to the fact, supported by others, that the
IGC charter is unequivocal that this*elist is the primary workplace of
the IGC*... But you simply do not respond to that point , for whatever
reason. (Nor to others -- admittedly less important points, like a
request to know when is the planned day zero meeting and asking to
ensure there is no overlap with JNC meeting in the afternoon of that day)
Now, it seems that some discussion is happening for many months about
review of IGC charter.. No one really know why, how, or such about this.
Not one word, justification, etc have ever been advanced on this list,
much less put that to discussion, on what the charter says as the
primary workplace of the IGC.
Who is proposing such amendment, and why? What are the triggers,
reasons, justifications......!!???? Is this too much to ask...
I have not followed this discussion of this small group, which shows up
off and on, but always remains very unclear about what exactly is
happening. But in between I read somewhere, someone talking about
amending the charter, and another saying the charter may be saying this,
the original person pressing for the amendment saying, ok, but where is
the charter, I havent seen it !!!???? People want to amend the charter
without having seen it... What is happening here.
I do not want to bring up issues about how submissions have been made on
the behalf of IGC, without following any kind of due procedure, and when
the charter is absolutely clear as well as insistent about the due
process, and so on, many things....
I was trying to stay off, but this is becoming a real mess, sorry...
Best regards
parminder
On 17/07/19 7:39 PM, Bruna Martins dos Santos (via governance Mailing
List) wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> Can we agree on the proposed agenda for the upcoming call ?
>
> *CS Meeting Agenda *
>
> 1. Onboarding new IGC Members (Bestbits members who are opting into IGC)
> 2. Charter review discussion
> 3. IGC New Website
> 4. IGC Co-Coordinator Elections
> 5. IGF 2019 Day Zero event
> 6. AOB
>
> Is there any other subject our members wish to add ?
>
> Best,
> Bruna Santos
>
> Le mer. 17 juil. 2019 à 10:32, "Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro"
> <governance at lists.riseup.net <mailto:governance at lists.riseup.net>> a
> écrit :
>
> I forgot to add failing to deliver the website on time.
>
> On Wed, 17 Jul 2019, 2:22 pm Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro,
> <salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com
> <mailto:salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Response is inline;
>
> On Wed, 17 Jul 2019, 2:15 pm Arsène Tungali,
> <arsenebaguma at gmail.com <mailto:arsenebaguma at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> It is noted that you don't want to apologize and it is
> your right.
> This is noted.
>
> And you don't have to call people "incompetent" with no
> details/explanation to substantiate your claim. On what
> basis are you
> calling coordinators incompetent?
>
>
> 1)Pending elections and not calling for nominees from November
> last year for January's elections.
>
> 2)Not driving a call for strategic engagement and waiting for
> the wind to blow the IGC in any direction. I will use Milton's
> term for "rudderless".
>
> I will underscore that the criticism is on the inaction and
> not of people personally. This is not a personal attack but
> addressing a key leadership issue.
>
>
> It is okay to say now that Arsene is term ended since
> January because
> there are activities on the list, but it was obvious that
> no one was
> interested in elections at some point.
>
>
> Again, this is rubbish. A call for elections is void of
> people's lack of interest. There was no call put out last
> November, 2018.
>
> And you should thank those who
> have helped revive the discussion because those here who
> recall the
> history, we have gone through a lot of issues and if
> elections were
> called at that time, close to no one would have nominated
> themselves
> for that.
>
>
> The IGC was never dead. Its members are movers and shakers
> globally, it is the leadership that needs revival.
>
>
> Only God knows how many times I called for help here when
> everything
> was almost dying, I think at some point this community
> will have to
> thank me for my service :)
>
>
> Again hogwash. You were always putting emails notifying of MAG
> activities not engaged in core leadership. Whilst I thank you
> for your service, you do us all a tremendous disservice when
> you do not take responsibility for not calling elections. This
> is not acceptable. Leaders must be able to take responsibility.
>
> But this is not the point here as I don't
> always seek for praises whenever I am doing some work. I
> am thankful
> to Bruna for her support since the day she joined and
> everyone else
> who provided help.
>
> The future looks great now, let's work to make things happen!
>
> The future is always great! Yes we should work together but it
> also means having Frank and open and honest conversations so
> we can move forward.
>
> I look
> forward to having BestBits members join and be allowed
> time to have
> voting rights, as per the charter.
>
> Please digest what Parminder raised on this matter and
> scores more.
>
>
> Regards,
> Arsene
>
>
> 2019-07-17 14:20 UTC+02:00, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro
> <salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com
> <mailto:salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com>>:
> > I will not apologise for the incompetence shown by the
> coordinators.
> > The Charter clearly states that revisions made can only
> be voted on by
> > those that participate in last held elections.
> > Arsene no longer is coordinator and this term ended last
> January by virtue
> > of Charter.
> >
> > Get on with the elections!
> >
> > On Wed, 17 Jul 2019, 11:57 am Salanieta T.
> Tamanikaiwaimaro, <
> > salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com
> <mailto:salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> >> What a load of rubbish!
> >> The elections need to take place asap.
> >> The preparations for the IGF can continue simultaneously.
> >>
> >>
> >> Get it together!
> >>
> >> On Wed, 17 Jul 2019, 11:37 am Sheetal Kumar,
> <sheetal at gp-digital.org <mailto:sheetal at gp-digital.org>>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Dear all,
> >>>
> >>> I'm happy to be part of a leadership or steering
> group, if everyone is
> >>> ok
> >>> with that. Apart from Bruna, I would also suggest that
> Farzaneh is
> >>> involved
> >>> in such a group if she can be.
> >>>
> >>> And thank you Arsene for your help and efforts so far,
> much appreciated.
> >>>
> >>> Best
> >>> Sheetal.
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, 17 Jul 2019 at 11:29, Arsène Tungali
> <arsenebaguma at gmail.com <mailto:arsenebaguma at gmail.com>>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Thanks for sharing that, Ian.
> >>>>
> >>>> I really don't see a point of having elections now in
> the middle of an
> >>>> important process that we all look forward to. I
> think we should aim
> >>>> at concluding this by the end of the year, at the
> latest so that
> >>>> January 2020, we have everything in place? IGF is in
> November, we
> >>>> should be sufficiently advanced by then because
> that's the only big
> >>>> physical gathering for most of us here for the year
> and then comes
> >>>> holidays in December. All major discussions (and
> decisions?) should be
> >>>> taken by Berlin?
> >>>>
> >>>> If the list is happy, I am stepping down (i know I
> should have done
> >>>> this long time ago but if you have been following, I
> have only been
> >>>> doing my best to help out here) and will no longer
> take an official
> >>>> position here. I remain a member and will leave it to
> Bruna who is
> >>>> still a legitimate Co-coordinator, I believe, and
> Sheetal who has been
> >>>> leading this process (merger, etc). Can we trust at
> least the two
> >>>> individuals to lead us to a new IGC in the next few
> months?
> >>>>
> >>>> This said, from now on, I will be acting as a member
> so please
> >>>> consider my emails not as a Co-coordinator but a member.
> >>>>
> >>>> I hope this helps.
> >>>>
> >>>> Regards,
> >>>> Arsene
> >>>>
> >>>> 2019-07-17 12:18 UTC+02:00, ian.peter at ianpeter.com
> <mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com> <
> >>>> ian.peter at ianpeter.com <mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com>>:
> >>>> > Thanks for that update Arsene.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > If you are adopting a new charter as well as
> everything else you
> >>>> > mention, it looks to me like a long drawn out
> process which will go
> >>>> well
> >>>> > into 2020. That may well be the best path forward,
> but I think in the
> >>>> > circumstances it would be appropriate for this list
> to endorse a
> >>>> > leadership group who will guide this process
> forward. I would like to
> >>>> > feel that a step has been taken to ensure the list
> is happy with the
> >>>> > directions being discussed and agreeable to a
> leadership group taking
> >>>> it
> >>>> > forward.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > That would add a lot of credibiity IMHO.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > I won't be joining the call, but I think it is very
> important that it
> >>>> > reports back to here, as Parminder and others have
> mentioned, and
> >>>> > that
> >>>> > steps forward are discussed here on list and endorsed.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Ian Peter
> >>>> > ------ Original Message ------
> >>>> > From: "Arsène Tungali" <governance at lists.riseup.net
> <mailto:governance at lists.riseup.net>>
> >>>> > To: "Sheetal Kumar" <sheetal at gp-digital.org
> <mailto:sheetal at gp-digital.org>>
> >>>> > Cc: "ian.peter at ianpeter.com
> <mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com>" <ian.peter at ianpeter.com
> <mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com>>; "Salanieta T.
> >>>> > Tamanikaiwaimaro"
> <salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com
> <mailto:salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com>>; "Parminder"
> >>>> > <parminder at itforchange.net
> <mailto:parminder at itforchange.net>>; "governance"
> >>>> > <governance at lists.riseup.net
> <mailto:governance at lists.riseup.net>
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Sent: 17/07/2019 7:55:02 PM
> >>>> > Subject: Re: [governance] Reviving IGC: Merging
> Bestbits in, IGF Day
> >>>> > zero event and other subjects
> >>>> >
> >>>> >>Good point, Sheetal and I agree with you.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>I had briefly discussed the election issue with
> Bruna during the last
> >>>> >>ICANN meeting and we agreed that the best time to
> conduct co-co
> >>>> >>elections is right after the merger step is
> completed, the new
> >>>> >> charter
> >>>> >>has been adopted and we have a unified list. I am
> sure Bruna was
> >>>> >>planning to report this to the list at some point,
> but here you are.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>I would suggest we all plan to attend the call and
> agree on next
> >>>> >> steps.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>Regards,
> >>>> >>Arsene
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>2019-07-17 11:44 UTC+02:00, Sheetal Kumar
> <sheetal at gp-digital.org <mailto:sheetal at gp-digital.org>>:
> >>>> >>> Dear all,
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> While the closure of Bestbits is an internal
> matter for Bestbits,
> >>>> >>> we
> >>>> >>> have
> >>>> >>> agreed for it to be closed and so I'd say any
> IGC conversations
> >>>> need to
> >>>> >>> take that into account. We're at that point
> where the closure has
> >>>> been
> >>>> >>> agreed but there are still people on Bestbits
> who are not on IGC
> >>>> >>> but
> >>>> >>> likely
> >>>> >>> will sign up to be part of the discussions soon.
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> As such, shouldn't we wait for those from
> Bestbits who want to
> >>>> >>> join
> >>>> to
> >>>> >>> join
> >>>> >>> and we can then get the IGC coordinator
> elections going? The call
> >>>> >>> to
> >>>> >>> agree
> >>>> >>> next steps and make sure everyone is on the same
> page is going to
> >>>> >>> be
> >>>> >>> w/c
> >>>> >>> August 5.
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> Best
> >>>> >>> Sheetal
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> On Wed, 17 Jul 2019 at 06:29,
> ian.peter at ianpeter.com <mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com>
> >>>> >>> <ian.peter at ianpeter.com
> <mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com>>
> >>>> >>> wrote:
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>>> Bruna,
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>> On a more substantive matter -
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>> Can you also advise us on how progress is going
> as regards
> >>>> >>>> getting
> >>>> the
> >>>> >>>> IGC
> >>>> >>>> Coordinator elections (which were due last
> January) underway? On
> >>>> June
> >>>> >>>> 26
> >>>> >>>> you advised the list that you. would be talking
> to Arsene and
> >>>> >>>> would
> >>>> >>>> get
> >>>> >>>> back to the list ASAP. Do you have an update?
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>> Ian Peter
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>> ------ Original Message ------
> >>>> >>>> From: "Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro"
> >>>> >>>> <governance at lists.riseup.net
> <mailto:governance at lists.riseup.net>
> >>>> >
> >>>> >>>> To: "Parminder" <parminder at itforchange.net
> <mailto:parminder at itforchange.net>>
> >>>> >>>> Cc: "governance" <governance at lists.riseup.net
> <mailto:governance at lists.riseup.net>>
> >>>> >>>> Sent: 17/07/2019 2:14:13 PM
> >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [governance] Reviving IGC: Merging
> Bestbits in, IGF
> >>>> Day
> >>>> >>>> zero
> >>>> >>>> event and other subjects
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>> Agree with Parminder.
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>> On Wed, 17 Jul 2019, 5:11 am parminder,
> >>>> >>>> <parminder at itforchange.net
> <mailto:parminder at itforchange.net>
> >>>> >
> >>>> >>>> wrote:
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>>> HI Bruna/ All
> >>>> >>>>>
> >>>> >>>>> Good morning to all!
> >>>> >>>>>
> >>>> >>>>> Bestbits' merging into the IGC is their
> internal matter.
> >>>> >>>>>
> >>>> >>>>> As for a day zero event at the IGF for the
> IGC, when do you plan
> >>>> >>>>> it...
> >>>> >>>>> Just Net Coalition has an event post lunch on
> day zero, and
> >>>> >>>>> please
> >>>> >>>>> ensure
> >>>> >>>>> that these do not clash. Thanks.
> >>>> >>>>>
> >>>> >>>>> While as a secondary or adjunct method call
> based discussions
> >>>> >>>>> can
> >>>> be
> >>>> >>>>> done
> >>>> >>>>> among however wishes to do so, the charter
> clearly says that the
> >>>> main
> >>>> >>>>> and
> >>>> >>>>> authoritative space of IGC's work will be this
> e-list, which I
> >>>> >>>>> request
> >>>> >>>>> everyone's attention to.
> >>>> >>>>>
> >>>> >>>>> thanks and best regards
> >>>> >>>>>
> >>>> >>>>> parminder
> >>>> >>>>> On 17/07/19 7:32 AM, Bruna Martins dos Santos
> (via governance
> >>>> Mailing
> >>>> >>>>> List) wrote:
> >>>> >>>>>
> >>>> >>>>> Dear IGC members,
> >>>> >>>>>
> >>>> >>>>> As some of you might be aware, there has been
> some discussions
> >>>> around
> >>>> >>>>> the
> >>>> >>>>> merger of BestBits and IGC going on for the
> past months.
> >>>> >>>>>
> >>>> >>>>> Back in Tunis, @RightsCon
> <rightscon at accessnow.org
> <mailto:rightscon at accessnow.org>>, some of us
> >>>> >>>>> convened
> >>>> >>>>> to discuss further steps for Civil Society
> Coordination and that
> >>>> also
> >>>> >>>>> entailed the merger debate. The summary of the
> discussion, as
> >>>> well as
> >>>> >>>>> the
> >>>> >>>>> decision on closing BestBits can all be found
> at the BestBits
> >>>> >>>>> list
> >>>> >>>>>
> <http://lists.bestbits.net/arc/bestbits/2019-07/msg00001.html>.
> >>>> >>>>>
> >>>> >>>>> Past this moment, theres a need to arrange a
> call to discuss our
> >>>> next
> >>>> >>>>> steps, including a Day Zero Event at the IGF,
> later in November.
> >>>> >>>>> Another
> >>>> >>>>> agenda items are also reviving the IGC
> website, IGC
> >>>> co-coordinators
> >>>> >>>>> elections and our charter. Additionally to IGC
> related subjects,
> >>>> >>>>> there
> >>>> >>>>> is
> >>>> >>>>> also the need to discuss a proper closure for
> BestBits, as well
> >>>> >>>>> as
> >>>> >>>>> proper
> >>>> >>>>> outreach in a transparent way and the
> possibility for members to
> >>>> join
> >>>> >>>>> IGC.
> >>>> >>>>>
> >>>> >>>>> For this reason, @Sheetal Kumar
> <sheetal at gp-digital.org <mailto:sheetal at gp-digital.org>>
> created
> >>>> this
> >>>> >>>>> doodle for all interested members to indicate
> their availability
> >>>> for
> >>>> >>>>> the
> >>>> >>>>> call: https://doodle.com/poll/fy4mgf68qehhhh26
> >>>> >>>>> <https://doodle.com/poll/fy4mgf68qehhhh26>
> >>>> >>>>>
> >>>> >>>>> Best Regards,
> >>>> >>>>>
> >>>> >>>>> --
> >>>> >>>>> *Bruna Martins dos Santos *
> >>>> >>>>>
> >>>> >>>>> Skype ID: bruna.martinsantos
> >>>> >>>>> @boomartins
> >>>> >>>>>
> >>>> >>>>> ---
> >>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe:
> <mailto:igc-unsubscribe at lists.riseup.net
> <mailto:igc-unsubscribe at lists.riseup.net>>
> >>>> >>>>> <igc-unsubscribe at lists.riseup.net
> <mailto:igc-unsubscribe at lists.riseup.net>>
> >>>> >>>>> List help: <https://riseup.net/lists>
> <https://riseup.net/lists>
> >>>> >>>>>
> >>>> >>>>> ---
> >>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe:
> <mailto:igc-unsubscribe at lists.riseup.net
> <mailto:igc-unsubscribe at lists.riseup.net>>
> >>>> >>>>> List help: <https://riseup.net/lists>
> >>>> >>>>>
> >>>> >>>> ---
> >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe:
> <mailto:igc-unsubscribe at lists.riseup.net
> <mailto:igc-unsubscribe at lists.riseup.net>>
> >>>> >>>> List help: <https://riseup.net/lists>
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> --
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> *Sheetal Kumar*
> >>>> >>> Programme Lead | GLOBAL PARTNERS DIGITAL
> >>>> >>> Second Home, 68-80 Hanbury Street, London, E1 5JL
> >>>> >>> T: +44 (0)20 3 818 3258| M: +44 (0)7739569514 |
> >>>> >>> PGP ID: E592EFBBEAB1CF31 | PGP Fingerprint:
> F5D5 114D 173B E9E2
> >>>> 0603
> >>>> >>> DD7F
> >>>> >>> E592 EFBB EAB1 CF31|
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>--
> >>>> >>------------------------
> >>>> >>**Arsène Tungali* <http://about.me/ArseneTungali>*
> >>>> >>Co-Founder & Executive Director, *Rudi international
> >>>> >><http://www.rudiinternational.org>*,
> >>>> >>CEO,* Smart Services Sarl
> <https://www.smart-kitoko.com/>*,
> >>>> >>Tel: +243 993810967 (DRC)
> >>>> >>GPG: 523644A0
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>2015 Mandela Washington Fellow
> >>>> >><
> >>>> >>
> >>>>
> http://tungali.blogspot.com/2015/06/selected-for-2015-mandela-washington.html
> >>>> >
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>(YALI) - ICANN GNSO Council Member
> >>>> >><https://gnso.icann.org/en/about/gnso-council.htm>
> Member. UN IGF MAG
> >>>> >><https://www.un.org/press/en/2018/pi2247.doc.htm>
> Member
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> ------------------------
> >>>> **Arsène Tungali* <http://about.me/ArseneTungali>*
> >>>> Co-Founder & Executive Director, *Rudi international
> >>>> <http://www.rudiinternational.org>*,
> >>>> CEO,* Smart Services Sarl
> <https://www.smart-kitoko.com/>*,
> >>>> Tel: +243 993810967 (DRC)
> >>>> GPG: 523644A0
> >>>>
> >>>> 2015 Mandela Washington Fellow
> >>>> <
> >>>>
> >>>>
> http://tungali.blogspot.com/2015/06/selected-for-2015-mandela-washington.html
> >>>> >
> >>>>
> >>>> (YALI) - ICANN GNSO Council Member
> >>>> <https://gnso.icann.org/en/about/gnso-council.htm>
> Member. UN IGF MAG
> >>>> <https://www.un.org/press/en/2018/pi2247.doc.htm> Member
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> *Sheetal Kumar*
> >>> Programme Lead | GLOBAL PARTNERS DIGITAL
> >>> Second Home, 68-80 Hanbury Street, London, E1 5JL
> >>> T: +44 (0)20 3 818 3258| M: +44 (0)7739569514 |
> >>> PGP ID: E592EFBBEAB1CF31 | PGP Fingerprint: F5D5 114D
> 173B E9E2 0603
> >>> DD7F E592 EFBB EAB1 CF31|
> >>>
> >>>
> >
>
>
> --
> ------------------------
> **Arsène Tungali* <http://about.me/ArseneTungali>*
> Co-Founder & Executive Director, *Rudi international
> <http://www.rudiinternational.org>*,
> CEO,* Smart Services Sarl <https://www.smart-kitoko.com/>*,
> Tel: +243 993810967 (DRC)
> GPG: 523644A0
>
> 2015 Mandela Washington Fellow
> <
> http://tungali.blogspot.com/2015/06/selected-for-2015-mandela-washington.html>
>
> (YALI) - ICANN GNSO Council Member
> <https://gnso.icann.org/en/about/gnso-council.htm> Member.
> UN IGF MAG
> <https://www.un.org/press/en/2018/pi2247.doc.htm> Member
>
> ---
> To unsubscribe: <mailto:igc-unsubscribe at lists.riseup.net
> <mailto:igc-unsubscribe at lists.riseup.net>>
> List help: <https://riseup.net/lists>
>
>
>
> --
> */Bruna Martins dos Santos /*
>
> Skype ID: bruna.martinsantos
> @boomartins
>
> ---
> To unsubscribe: <mailto:igc-unsubscribe at lists.riseup.net>
> List help: <https://riseup.net/lists>
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