[governance] Reviving IGC: Merging Bestbits in, IGF Day zero event and other subjects

parminder parminder at itforchange.net
Fri Jul 19 08:35:48 EDT 2019


On 19/07/19 5:48 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote:
> Comments are inline:
>
> On Fri, 19 Jul 2019, 12:10 pm Akinremi Peter Taiwo,
> <governance at lists.riseup.net <mailto:governance at lists.riseup.net>> wrote:
>
>     I can't agree more with Parminder points that IGC is not measured
>     by website presence but of substance. Making IGC to have substance
>     should be our main priority. Currently, we have *665* subscribers
>     on the riseup mailing list, but not up to 10 names shows up
>     frequently on the list. Safe me the question of "how", migrated
>     members please.  
>
>
> It is the right of members to not comment or lurk. Only those that
> voted in the last elections can vote on amendments to the charter. In
> other words the distinction is who can vote. People can lurk but vote.

Just to add in case the readers are not clear from the above;

Only those who voted last time can vote for charter amendments.

All members who have been members for more than 2 months can vote for
co-coordinator election.

parminder



>
>     Maybe, we need to start asking ourselves valid questions as to
>     whether others are not participating. To get us to speed, I'll
>     suggest, if visible, that the coordinators reach out to the
>     subscribers to confirm their interest and active participation. Or
>     a kind of roll call that confirm members' presence. And BB member,
>     if willing to be added to build a functioning and active list
>     before any election. With that, the substance as mentioned by
>     Parminder can be seen and restored. 
>
>     Regards.
>     Peter
>
>     On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 5:04 AM parminder
>     <parminder at itforchange.net <mailto:parminder at itforchange.net>> wrote:
>
>         There is going to be no fancy 'leadership group'
>
>         No one has mentioned its need, justification, etc.
>
>         I dont mind Arsene and Bruno to continue till elections, and
>         they should.
>
>         Sala, you were the greatest proponent for early even
>         intimidate elections. Now, you agree with Ian below that no
>         "immediate coco election" "seems to be he most supported
>         option"? Anyway...
>
>         If elections are due, they should take place.
>
>         If they are postponed, clear reasons may be described and
>         action be taken as per.... Charter amendment is out from such
>         a list of reasons... Website work is independent and nothing
>         to do with elections (although remember IGC was never much
>         about a great website, it needs to first gets its 'substance'
>         right which is nearly at about 'zero' right now, but new
>         things are always welcome, pl go ahead. But let not the
>         website volunteer list become anything else meanwhile).
>
>         Are elections therefore being postponed bec BB members (that
>         are not already in the IGC) need to be able to get to vote 
>         (although no one has really explained why that such a tearing
>         hurry to vote for what everyone agrees is likely a pretty
>         small number, but anyway)?  Pl be clear and specific in
>         response -- both, the cocos, and those from BB who know about
>         this matter. election postponement is a big thing.  Thanks.
>
>         Let us clearly be told why elections are being postponed... If
>         the above BB issue, then we want clarity on; is BB closure and
>         folding into the IGC decided, when would the non IGC members
>         enrol in the IGC, any time lines etc for that..
>
>         That alone is the clear issue in front of us, related to coco
>         elections. So please convey clarity to the IGC membership asap
>         on this matter, and I request cocos special attention to this
>
>         Thanks and regards
>
>         parminder
>
>
>         On 19/07/19 4:37 AM, "Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro" (via
>         governance Mailing List) wrote:
>>         Ditto everything that Ian said.
>>
>>         On Thu, 18 Jul 2019, 11:49 pm ian.peter at ianpeter.com
>>         <mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com>, <ian.peter at ianpeter.com
>>         <mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com>> wrote:
>>
>>             Well its good to see so many people who care about the
>>             future of a credible voice for civil society in the
>>             internet governance field, even if there are big
>>             differences as regards how to revive things in this space!
>>
>>             If I may summarise:
>>
>>             1. IGC Charter revisions are not urgent. They should be
>>             discussed down the track after a credible web presence
>>             and leadership structure have been restored.
>>
>>             2. We have offers of assistance (including Farzeneh and
>>             Jeremy) regards website restoration. There is no reason
>>             why this cannot take place now with a small group
>>             reporting back here. (see separate topic)
>>
>>             3. Regarding leadership. Many strong voices argue for
>>             coco election now, others suggest a delay of a couple of
>>             months until other matters are in place. I am not
>>             convinced either way - do we have a membership list, for
>>             instance, which is necessary for elections? If not, there
>>             seems to be no choice but to delay. And if there is one
>>             election now, there will also be another one in less than
>>             six months when Bruna's term expires. So an argument to
>>             do both together in a few months is reasonable perhaps. I
>>             will be happy for whatever outcome the call suggests for
>>             this, BUT::::::
>>
>>             If there is not an immediate coco election, which seems
>>             to be the most supported option, I believe it is
>>             essential; we agree to an interim leadership group until
>>             it is practical to hold such elections. Apart from Bruna,
>>             capable names like Sheeta and Farzeneh have been
>>             mentioned. Such an interim group is absolutely necessary,
>>             I believe, if the group decides on the call not to
>>             proceed immediately with coco elections.
>>
>>             So I am happy whichever way the call determines on this
>>             one: but I am not happy for there to be no action at all
>>             to resolve this issue. 
>>
>>             Ian Peter
>>              -
>>
>>
>>             ------ Original Message ------
>>             From: "Sheetal Kumar" <sheetal at gp-digital.org
>>             <mailto:sheetal at gp-digital.org>>
>>             To: "parminder" <parminder at itforchange.net
>>             <mailto:parminder at itforchange.net>>
>>             Cc: "Mueller, Milton L" <milton at gatech.edu
>>             <mailto:milton at gatech.edu>>; "Nnenna Nwakanma"
>>             <nnenna75 at gmail.com <mailto:nnenna75 at gmail.com>>;
>>             "governance" <governance at lists.riseup.net
>>             <mailto:governance at lists.riseup.net>>
>>             Sent: 18/07/2019 7:43:41 PM
>>             Subject: Re: [governance] Reviving IGC: Merging Bestbits
>>             in, IGF Day zero event and other subjects
>>
>>>             Dear Parminder, all,
>>>
>>>             As you and others have pointed out, the conversation
>>>             about closing Bestbits and requesting any members there
>>>             who are not already on IGC to join IGC (aka 'merger' to
>>>             some) has been ongoing for months. The information has
>>>             been continually shared on both this list/among this
>>>             community and on the Bestbits list. Anyway, we could
>>>             have done more to reach out to key people and
>>>             communicated things more clearly perhaps. That's
>>>             something I've learned. We did try but we can always do
>>>             more to communicate better. 
>>>
>>>             There are just a few things which Parminder you've asked
>>>             clarity on, and what follows is my reading of things as
>>>             someone who has been part of the relevant discussions
>>>             from the beginning so I do hope I'm not misrepresenting
>>>             anything. As Farzaneh was doing earlier, I think it's
>>>             worth identifying what we agree on and then work through
>>>             what we disagree on.
>>>
>>>             /If there is anything more? If so, everyone involved,
>>>             please state it out here, explicitly, on the IGC's
>>>             primary working space. Why are we going  in so many
>>>             circles about it?/
>>>
>>>             //
>>>
>>>             /What process is being disregarded, the one about  which
>>>             yesterday Arsene reported that it was decided that
>>>             elections will be held after (1) the IGC charter is
>>>             amended (and I have been asking what is this, who
>>>             triggered this demand, with what objectives, what
>>>             justifications, and so on, and people simply refuse to
>>>             answer), and (2) when their is a combined list (sorry,
>>>             IGC is not a list, one has to individually take its
>>>             membership with an explicit individual-based process,
>>>             there is no merging or combining lists here) ./
>>>
>>>             All that has been discussed, on both IGC and Bestbits
>>>             lists, including by active, long-standing and even
>>>             founding members of both, has been how to reinvigorate
>>>             civil society coordination. It was agreed by those
>>>             taking part in these discussions which have been open to
>>>             everyone from the start (there is a whole archive of the
>>>             discussions that have been continually shared on here
>>>             and on Bestbits, including in the etherpad here
>>>             <https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/Bestbitscallfuture>),
>>>             that the existence of both Bestbits and IGC wasn't
>>>             helping so Bestbits should close. As we are all
>>>             sticklers for process (a good thing, in my opinion),
>>>             this could not simply be a matter of closing the list
>>>             and telling everyone to move off onto another (IGC) if
>>>             they weren't already members. As I mentioned before,
>>>             Bestbits was more than a list too. Instead, we had
>>>             conversations about it, that lasted months. Some people
>>>             even wanted to create a new group. We decided not to.
>>>             Among some suggestions that came out of these
>>>             conversations was the opportunity to revise the IGC
>>>             charter. Founding IGC members were part of this
>>>             discussion, nothing, and I repeat, nothing was decided
>>>             or agreed in that regard. Indeed it would be bizarre for
>>>             that to happen. Any such process would have to respect
>>>             the IGC charter and involve all members. Of course.
>>>             Anything that has been shared which says otherwise are
>>>             simply unfortunate misunderstandings, and we should move
>>>             on. There are no reverse takeovers taking place, no
>>>             desire to rip apart the Charter. Respect for process is
>>>             key. There is no self-appointed leadership from what I
>>>             can see, just people trying to steer things towards more
>>>             unity and less fracture.
>>>
>>>             /Any newcomer needs just 2 months of membership to
>>>             vote.. No one really is insisting that we hold elections
>>>             like today . But this certainly cannot be the reason for
>>>             a process that you / Sheetal are saying has been on for
>>>             more than 6 months now. That  would be so very
>>>             illogical, no..... Is just the issue of eligibility for
>>>             voting stopping the process, but why labour it over 7
>>>             months when it needs just 2 months cooling period? --
>>>             Although it does make me wonder, and I repeat, why such
>>>             a strong focus on the coordinator election!! IGC is much
>>>             more than that... Why such insistence!!? What does one
>>>             read into it.
>>>             /
>>>
>>>             It may seem bizarre, but honestly, it just took ages for
>>>             those in the discussions which have been open to
>>>             everyone since the beginning to decide to close Bestbits
>>>             as a 'solution' to a lack of civil society coordination.
>>>             There were other proposals like I said, including
>>>             setting up a new group. So here we are. 7 months later,
>>>             with agreement to close Bestbits and not create a new
>>>             list or do something else. IGC is more than a list,
>>>             sure, but because leadership is I guess key to
>>>             reinvigorating things, elections are seen as a way to start.
>>>
>>>             Also, others have asked 'how many people are on
>>>             Bestbits' that are not on IGC? Honestly, I don't know.
>>>             Maybe its 2, maybe its 20. My reasoning is that even if
>>>             one or two of those people join and have the energy and
>>>             commitment to run for elections and coordinate going
>>>             forward, we should wait for them to join. Do we have
>>>             much to lose? David and Jeanette have pointed out that
>>>             we could wait for an indefinite period of time and it
>>>             would just be a for a handful of people to join. That is
>>>             true, so we could undertake an exercise comparing who is
>>>             not on both lists and reach out to them directly.
>>>             Alternatively, we are planning to have a call in w/c
>>>             August 05 (I will send the details soon) and we can
>>>             collectively set a date then for the closure of
>>>             Bestbits, requesting those not already on IGC to join.
>>>             And then we'll be all having this conversation on this
>>>             list, including new members. Once new BB members have
>>>             joined (even if its just 2-3 people) we can then decide
>>>             whether to hold elections right away or wait 2 months.
>>>             Maybe everyone will want to just hold elections right
>>>             away, including the handful of new members. Or maybe
>>>             they'll want to wait. Also, we can discuss the day 0
>>>             event together. If we don't do the closure properly then
>>>             we risk relevant and interested people losing out on the
>>>             opportunity to discuss these things.
>>>
>>>             So, can we agree that we set a date and time by which
>>>             members of Bestbits who are not members of IGC join IGC
>>>             and then we set an agenda, and have a conversation about
>>>             when to hold elections etc etc?
>>>
>>>             Also, btw the day 0 event is from 16h00-18h00 in Room X. 
>>>
>>>             Best
>>>
>>>             Sheetal
>>>
>>>
>>>             On Thu, 18 Jul 2019 at 09:35, parminder
>>>             <parminder at itforchange.net
>>>             <mailto:parminder at itforchange.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>                 On 17/07/19 11:02 PM, Mueller, Milton L wrote:
>>>>                 What Sheetal says below is correct in my opinion.
>>>>                 We are in fact trying to merge BB and IGC. 
>>>
>>>                 Only loosely speaking, formally from IGC point of
>>>                 view, there is no merging happening... Some new
>>>                 people want to join IGC, and if conditions are
>>>                 fulfilled they are indeed welcome.
>>>
>>>                 If there is anything more? If so, everyone involved,
>>>                 please state it out here, explicitly, on the IGC's
>>>                 primary working space. Why are we going  in so many
>>>                 circles about it?
>>>
>>>                 Lately, two specific, and what I consider minor,
>>>                 issues have been stated.
>>>
>>>                 1. Can enough time be given to elections so that the
>>>                 new members can go through their 2 month cooling
>>>                 period.... I said that can be done, and there has
>>>                 been no major opposition to it (Although, frankly,
>>>                 if you ask me, I really do not understand why this
>>>                 hurry and absolute insistence on voting right away .
>>>                 That should not be such a big thing. Cooling periods
>>>                 are there for a reason. People who havent ever been
>>>                 on the IGC  need to observe, see and know and mingle
>>>                 before insisting on some absolute rights to vote for
>>>                 their choice of coordinator. So, why, really this
>>>                 insistence ? What is the plan? But anyway, I really
>>>                 said I am fine either way.)
>>>
>>>                 2. What to do with BB's web archives, and again
>>>                 there is not much problem with it. Whenever we have
>>>                 a working IGC website, we can put them somewhere on
>>>                 it, no problem.
>>>
>>>                 What else? Is there anything more? Why dont people
>>>                 tell us clearly, rather than going in circles and
>>>                 creating so much confusion.
>>>
>>>>                 We are trying to create a more unified civil
>>>>                 society presence. We don’t do that by throwing up
>>>>                 procedural walls around this group.
>>>
>>>                 Can you be explicit? what procedural walls are
>>>                 blocking BB people -- other than those who already
>>>                 are there-- from joining IGC, ?
>>>
>>>
>>>>                 Face facts, IGC needs the people from BB just as
>>>>                 much as they need us. It is destructive, as Sheetal
>>>>                 says, to disregard the process we have been going
>>>>                 through to bring things back together. 
>>>
>>>                 What process is being disregarded, the one about 
>>>                 which yesterday Arsene reported that it was decided
>>>                 that elections will be held after (1) the IGC
>>>                 charter is amended (and I have been asking what is
>>>                 this, who triggered this demand, with what
>>>                 objectives, what justifications, and so on, and
>>>                 people simply refuse to answer), and (2) when their
>>>                 is a combined list (sorry, IGC is not a list, one
>>>                 has to individually take its membership with an
>>>                 explicit individual-based process, there is no
>>>                 merging or combining lists here) .
>>>
>>>
>>>>                  I hope I don’t need to remind people why a
>>>>                 significant chunk of civil society broke off from
>>>>                 IGC to begin with - but it looks like certain
>>>>                 actors are doing the reminding for me.  
>>>
>>>                 Sure, Milton, since you are now going towards a
>>>                 confrontational abyss, please do remind us. (Btw,  I
>>>                 was among the founding members of BB, and I remember
>>>                 you werent around that much in those discussions). 
>>>                 In fact any coming back of BB member to IGC -- if
>>>                 you really think so --should perhaps be helped by
>>>                 visiting the original conditions of why they went
>>>                 away and so on... We are capable of an adult
>>>                 conversation here, and should not be afraid.
>>>                 Important public facts are always good to know and
>>>                 discuss. And then one may also discuss what happened
>>>                 with BB, whether they were able to achieve the
>>>                 objectives they set themselves for, if not, why, and
>>>                 what are the reasons of BB's dissolution and coming
>>>                 back to an IGC, which admittedly is far weaker and
>>>                 lost now than when they left it.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>                 It is exclusionary to hold elections now, before
>>>>                 the newcomers can vote. Can someone tell me what
>>>>                 positive goal is achieved by doing that? Can
>>>>                 someone tell me what is lost if we don’t hold
>>>>                 elections?
>>>
>>>                 Any newcomer needs just 2 months of membership to
>>>                 vote.. No one really is insisting that we hold
>>>                 elections like today . But this certainly cannot be
>>>                 the reason for a process that you / Sheetal are
>>>                 saying has been on for more than 6 months now. That 
>>>                 would be so very illogical, no..... Is just the
>>>                 issue of eligibility for voting stopping the
>>>                 process, but why labour it over 7 months when it
>>>                 needs just 2 months cooling period? -- Although it
>>>                 does make me wonder, and I repeat, why such a strong
>>>                 focus on the coordinator election!! IGC is much more
>>>                 than that... Why such insistence!!? What does one
>>>                 read into it.
>>>
>>>>                 Do some people like for IGC to be a small and
>>>>                 hostile place where they can be a big fish in a
>>>>                 small pond? I hope not.
>>>
>>>                 (Just to match) Or are some people planning to make
>>>                 IGC their private pond. I hope not.
>>>
>>>
>>>                 parminder
>>>
>>>>
>>>>                 Milton L Mueller
>>>>                 Professor, School of Public Policy
>>>>                 Georgia Institute of Technology
>>>>
>>>>                 On Jul 17, 2019, at 14:07, Sheetal Kumar
>>>>                 <sheetal at gp-digital.org
>>>>                 <mailto:sheetal at gp-digital.org>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>                 Dear all,
>>>>>
>>>>>                 I agree that it is easy to join IGC if you sign up
>>>>>                 to the Charter. It's indeed pretty
>>>>>                 straightforward. However, what I don't understand
>>>>>                 is the disregard for a process that has been
>>>>>                 ongoing for months, about a large and until
>>>>>                 recently active splinter group of IGC (namely,
>>>>>                 Bestbits) which has since agreed to close and its
>>>>>                 members who are not already part of IGC 'join
>>>>>                 IGC'. Bestbits was not just a mailing list, it had
>>>>>                 an active membership, it had a functioning
>>>>>                 website, it had a steering group, it used to
>>>>>                 coordinate, and more. It also had its own
>>>>>                 membership of the CSCG and used to convene an
>>>>>                 event before the global IGF. And now it is
>>>>>                 closing. Who knows how many people who have been
>>>>>                 part of that discussion or at least following on
>>>>>                 Bestbits who are not on IGC would like to be part
>>>>>                 of the IGC elections? Whether its semantic or not
>>>>>                 to call it a 'merger', the point remains that this
>>>>>                 has been a discussion for a few months that
>>>>>                 should, IMHO, have an impact on when to hold the
>>>>>                 IGC elections. They don't have to, but I think it
>>>>>                 makes sense for them to considering the history of
>>>>>                 IGC and Bestbits (as a splinter group of IGC).
>>>>>                 Also, I'm not saying this because I want to run
>>>>>                 for any elections necessarily, I've only ever been
>>>>>                 interested a discussion towards a more impactful
>>>>>                 and coordinated civil society in this space. It
>>>>>                 just seems to make sense not to disregard that
>>>>>                 Bestbits discussion and to take decisions with the
>>>>>                 Bestbits discussion in mind (again, because of the
>>>>>                 history of the connection between Bestbits and IGC).
>>>>>
>>>>>                 I've looked at the IGC Charter and it says "Voting
>>>>>                 process: Each person who is subscribed to the list
>>>>>                 at least two (2) months before the election will
>>>>>                 be given a voter account".
>>>>>
>>>>>                 So, even if Bestbits members who are not part of
>>>>>                 IGC joined then they couldn't vote right away.
>>>>>                 Shouldn't we wait for 2-3 months? If there is a
>>>>>                 time sensitive reason not to, that would be good
>>>>>                 to discuss.
>>>>>
>>>>>                 For clarity, revising the IGC charter was only
>>>>>                 ever an idea, its not been agreed to anywhere by
>>>>>                 anyone. It's just something to discuss, further
>>>>>                 down the line. Perhaps.
>>>>>
>>>>>                 Best
>>>>>                 Sheetal
>>>>>
>>>>>                 On Wed, 17 Jul 2019 at 12:40, Nnenna Nwakanma
>>>>>                 <governance at lists.riseup.net
>>>>>                 <mailto:governance at lists.riseup.net>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>                     I think we can pull off an IGC elections by 
>>>>>                     Berlin IGF.
>>>>>                     Joining the IGC from BB  should not be  "a
>>>>>                     process".
>>>>>
>>>>>                     Once an individual decides that it is worth
>>>>>                     it.. it only takes a click to accept the
>>>>>                     charter and be added to the mailing list.
>>>>>
>>>>>                     My 2 cents
>>>>>
>>>>>                     Nnenna
>>>>>
>>>>>                     On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 11:36 AM Suresh
>>>>>                     Ramasubramanian <suresh at hserus.net
>>>>>                     <mailto:suresh at hserus.net>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>                         Much to my surprise I agree with
>>>>>                         Parminder.  If Bestbits is to be wound up,
>>>>>                         so be it.
>>>>>
>>>>>                          
>>>>>
>>>>>                         After which, those from Bestbits who wish
>>>>>                         to caucus in the IGC please subscribe to
>>>>>                         the list and do so.
>>>>>
>>>>>                          
>>>>>
>>>>>                          
>>>>>
>>>>>                         *From:
>>>>>                         *<governance-request at lists.riseup.net
>>>>>                         <mailto:governance-request at lists.riseup.net>>
>>>>>                         on behalf of parminder
>>>>>                         <parminder at itforchange.net
>>>>>                         <mailto:parminder at itforchange.net>>
>>>>>                         *Reply to: *parminder
>>>>>                         <parminder at itforchange.net
>>>>>                         <mailto:parminder at itforchange.net>>
>>>>>                         *Date: *Wednesday, 17 July 2019 at 4:50 pm
>>>>>                         *To: *Arsène Tungali
>>>>>                         <arsenebaguma at gmail.com
>>>>>                         <mailto:arsenebaguma at gmail.com>>, Sheetal
>>>>>                         Kumar <sheetal at gp-digital.org
>>>>>                         <mailto:sheetal at gp-digital.org>>
>>>>>                         *Cc: *"ian.peter at ianpeter.com
>>>>>                         <mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com>"
>>>>>                         <ian.peter at ianpeter.com
>>>>>                         <mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com>>,
>>>>>                         "Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro"
>>>>>                         <salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com
>>>>>                         <mailto:salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com>>,
>>>>>                         governance <governance at lists.riseup.net
>>>>>                         <mailto:governance at lists.riseup.net>>
>>>>>                         *Subject: *Re: [governance] Reviving IGC:
>>>>>                         Merging Bestbits in, IGF Day zero event
>>>>>                         and other subjects
>>>>>
>>>>>                          
>>>>>
>>>>>                         On 17/07/19 3:25 PM, Arsène Tungali wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>                             Good point, Sheetal and I agree with you.
>>>>>
>>>>>                              
>>>>>
>>>>>                             I had briefly discussed the election issue with Bruna during the last
>>>>>
>>>>>                             ICANN meeting and we agreed that the best time to conduct co-co
>>>>>
>>>>>                             elections is right after the merger step is completed, the new charter
>>>>>
>>>>>                             has been adopted and we have a unified list. I am sure Bruna was
>>>>>
>>>>>                             planning to report this to the list at some point, but here you are.
>>>>>
>>>>>                         Arsene
>>>>>
>>>>>                         I am not sure what you mean about a
>>>>>                         unified list...
>>>>>
>>>>>                         There is a clear, and rather easy, way to
>>>>>                         join the IGC, and it is up to to those in
>>>>>                         Bestbits and not already in IGC to take
>>>>>                         that route if they want to. Meanwhile we
>>>>>                         do welcome all civil society members
>>>>>                         adhering to iGC's charter (rather than
>>>>>                         insisting for, unclear and unstated
>>>>>                         reasons, to modify it).
>>>>>
>>>>>                         And there is really no merger involved
>>>>>                         here, even if people loosely use that
>>>>>                         language .
>>>>>
>>>>>                         I remain astonished about the repeated
>>>>>                         talk about a new IGC charter, especially
>>>>>                         as an already decided thing! What exactly
>>>>>                         are you talking about.
>>>>>
>>>>>                         And I am further pained for you, being
>>>>>                         still perhaps an IGC co-coordinator, not
>>>>>                         at all responding to my clear email about
>>>>>                         how this elist is the primary work place
>>>>>                         for the IGC, and also an ex-coordinator's
>>>>>                         assent tp the sentiment.
>>>>>
>>>>>                              
>>>>>
>>>>>                             I would suggest we all plan to attend the call and agree on next steps.
>>>>>
>>>>>                         You can make whatever calls and agree on
>>>>>                         whatever steps you have you may wish to --
>>>>>                         that is no part of IGC's procedure, and
>>>>>                         would have no meaning or consequence for it.
>>>>>
>>>>>                         regards
>>>>>
>>>>>                         parminder
>>>>>
>>>>>                          
>>>>>
>>>>>                              
>>>>>
>>>>>                             Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>>                             Arsene
>>>>>
>>>>>                              
>>>>>
>>>>>                             2019-07-17 11:44 UTC+02:00, Sheetal Kumar <sheetal at gp-digital.org> <mailto:sheetal at gp-digital.org>:
>>>>>
>>>>>                                 Dear all,
>>>>>
>>>>>                                  
>>>>>
>>>>>                                 While the closure of Bestbits is an internal matter for Bestbits, we have
>>>>>
>>>>>                                 agreed for it to be closed and so I'd say any IGC conversations need to
>>>>>
>>>>>                                 take that into account. We're at that point where the closure has been
>>>>>
>>>>>                                 agreed but there are still people on Bestbits who are not on IGC but likely
>>>>>
>>>>>                                 will sign up to be part of the discussions soon.
>>>>>
>>>>>                                  
>>>>>
>>>>>                                 As such, shouldn't we wait for those from Bestbits who want to join to join
>>>>>
>>>>>                                 and we can then get the IGC coordinator elections going? The call to agree
>>>>>
>>>>>                                 next steps and make sure everyone is on the same page is going to be w/c
>>>>>
>>>>>                                 August 5.
>>>>>
>>>>>                                  
>>>>>
>>>>>                                 Best
>>>>>
>>>>>                                 Sheetal
>>>>>
>>>>>                                  
>>>>>
>>>>>                                 On Wed, 17 Jul 2019 at 06:29, ian.peter at ianpeter.com <mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com>
>>>>>
>>>>>                                 <ian.peter at ianpeter.com> <mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com>
>>>>>
>>>>>                                 wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>                                  
>>>>>
>>>>>                                     Bruna,
>>>>>
>>>>>                                      
>>>>>
>>>>>                                     On a more substantive matter -
>>>>>
>>>>>                                      
>>>>>
>>>>>                                     Can you also advise us on how progress is going as regards getting the
>>>>>
>>>>>                                     IGC
>>>>>
>>>>>                                     Coordinator elections (which were due last January) underway? On June 26
>>>>>
>>>>>                                     you advised the list that you. would be talking to Arsene and would get
>>>>>
>>>>>                                     back to the list ASAP.  Do you have an update?
>>>>>
>>>>>                                      
>>>>>
>>>>>                                     Ian Peter
>>>>>
>>>>>                                      
>>>>>
>>>>>                                      
>>>>>
>>>>>                                      
>>>>>
>>>>>                                     ------ Original Message ------
>>>>>
>>>>>                                     From: "Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro" <governance at lists.riseup.net> <mailto:governance at lists.riseup.net>
>>>>>
>>>>>                                     To: "Parminder" <parminder at itforchange.net> <mailto:parminder at itforchange.net>
>>>>>
>>>>>                                     Cc: "governance" <governance at lists.riseup.net> <mailto:governance at lists.riseup.net>
>>>>>
>>>>>                                     Sent: 17/07/2019 2:14:13 PM
>>>>>
>>>>>                                     Subject: Re: [governance] Reviving IGC: Merging Bestbits in, IGF Day zero
>>>>>
>>>>>                                     event and other subjects
>>>>>
>>>>>                                      
>>>>>
>>>>>                                     Agree with Parminder.
>>>>>
>>>>>                                      
>>>>>
>>>>>                                     On Wed, 17 Jul 2019, 5:11 am parminder, <parminder at itforchange.net> <mailto:parminder at itforchange.net>
>>>>>
>>>>>                                     wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>                                      
>>>>>
>>>>>                                         HI Bruna/ All
>>>>>
>>>>>                                          
>>>>>
>>>>>                                         Good morning to all!
>>>>>
>>>>>                                          
>>>>>
>>>>>                                         Bestbits' merging into the IGC is their internal matter.
>>>>>
>>>>>                                          
>>>>>
>>>>>                                         As for a day zero event at the IGF for the IGC, when do you plan it...
>>>>>
>>>>>                                         Just Net Coalition has an event post lunch on day zero, and please
>>>>>
>>>>>                                         ensure
>>>>>
>>>>>                                         that these do not clash. Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>>                                          
>>>>>
>>>>>                                         While as a secondary or adjunct method call based discussions can be
>>>>>
>>>>>                                         done
>>>>>
>>>>>                                         among however wishes to do so, the charter clearly says that the main
>>>>>
>>>>>                                         and
>>>>>
>>>>>                                         authoritative space of IGC's work will be this e-list, which I request
>>>>>
>>>>>                                         everyone's attention to.
>>>>>
>>>>>                                          
>>>>>
>>>>>                                         thanks and best regards
>>>>>
>>>>>                                          
>>>>>
>>>>>                                         parminder
>>>>>
>>>>>                                         On 17/07/19 7:32 AM, Bruna Martins dos Santos (via 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>                 *
>>>>>                 *
>>>>>                 *Sheetal Kumar*
>>>>>                 Programme Lead | GLOBAL PARTNERS DIGITAL
>>>>>                 Second Home, 68-80 Hanbury Street, London, E1 5JL
>>>>>                 T: +44 (0)20 3 818 3258| M: +44 (0)7739569514  |
>>>>>                 PGP ID: E592EFBBEAB1CF31  | PGP Fingerprint: F5D5
>>>>>                 114D 173B E9E2 0603 DD7F E592 EFBB EAB1 CF31|
>>>>>
>>>>>                 ---
>>>>>                 To unsubscribe:
>>>>>                 <mailto:igc-unsubscribe at lists.riseup.net>
>>>>>                 List help: <https://riseup.net/lists>
>>>>
>>>>                 ---
>>>>                 To unsubscribe: <mailto:igc-unsubscribe at lists.riseup.net> <mailto:igc-unsubscribe at lists.riseup.net>
>>>>                 List help: <https://riseup.net/lists> <https://riseup.net/lists>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>             -- 
>>>
>>>             *
>>>             *
>>>             *Sheetal Kumar*
>>>             Programme Lead | GLOBAL PARTNERS DIGITAL
>>>             Second Home, 68-80 Hanbury Street, London, E1 5JL
>>>             T: +44 (0)20 3 818 3258| M: +44 (0)7739569514  |
>>>             PGP ID: E592EFBBEAB1CF31  | PGP Fingerprint: F5D5 114D
>>>             173B E9E2 0603 DD7F E592 EFBB EAB1 CF31|
>>>
>>             ---
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>     	
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