[governance] PIR and ETHOS Convene Community Webinar on 12/19
Wisdom Donkor (via governance Mailing List)
governance at lists.riseup.net
Tue Dec 17 12:52:00 EST 2019
I can understand when the capitalist rule. We might not see the effect
emediately, but trust me ISOC will suffer it.
On Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 5:43 PM George Sadowsky <governance at lists.riseup.net>
wrote:
> Brett,
>
> I don't know what the outcome of this issue will be. If the sale goes
> through, there will be a healing period, perhaps long and perhaps
> destructive for ISOC. I do express my hope that whatever happens, ISOC's
> goals and activities will not be negatively impacted. But I admit that I
> do not know.
>
> I would rather that the sale not have proceeded, and certainly not in the
> way that it did. But I am willing to live with a decision that I don't
> like (it wouldn't be the first time) if a greater good depended on it, and
> I will support the more important objective even though I don't like the
> decision.
>
> The outstanding issue in my mind is focused on the extent to which the
> .org registrants feel that they have lost something really valuable in the
> transaction. Now I know that .org is just another registry, albeit a very
> well run one, from a technical point of view. What registrants and
> supporters have lost is the emotional benefit of being a part of a
> not-for-profit community and helping to support causes in that community in
> which they believe. If thatsense can be preserved and even strengthened, I
> think that dissenters to the transaction will ultimately be satisfied. But
> at present we have no knowledge of what Ethos' plans are, and there is
> unlikely to be any binding commitment until the situation is impossible to
> reverse. It's a lousy state of affairs, and the sooner that Ethos is
> willing to say something, the better.
>
> I am more inclined than most to trust what they say, but they are not
> saying much at all, and I can well understand the frustration of those who
> complain.
>
> George
>
> On Dec 17, 2019, at 11:28 AM, Brett Solomon <brett at accessnow.org> wrote:
>
> George et al,
>
> I started this email a few days back and it was in my inbox but I wanted
> to send it even though this is an old thread.
>
> I agree ISOC is an important and valued organization. One that many of us
> partner with, have trusted over numerous years and have respected for its
> contribution. However you conclusions are very far from where I sit. In
> fact I contend the opposite:
>
> The future of ISOC depends not on selling PIR but on maintaining it - this
> sorry episode has so significantly damaged ISOC's reputation, that the
> worst thing it could do now is to proceed. It should reverse its decision,
> rebuild trust with the community and continue to implement its mission.
>
> You say -* The eventual disposition of PIR should not be our primary
> concern, rather it should be ensuring that the goals of ISOC that we share
> with them should be furthered in the most effective manner possible.* I
> think that the future of* PIR should be our primary concern, and a side
> product of protecting it and .ORG, is to ensure the future of ISOC.*
>
> A sale will result in the destabilization of .ORG and the 10 million
> registrants and risks destroying ISOC in the process.
>
> Brett
>
> Brett Solomon
> Executive Director
> Access Now | accessnow.org
>
> @solomonbrett
> Key ID: 0x4EDC17EB
> Fingerprint: C02C A886 B0FC 3A25 FF9F ECE8 FCDF BA23 4EDC 17EB
>
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> Brett Solomon
> Executive Director
> Access Now | accessnow.org
>
> @solomonbrett
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>
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>
>
> On Fri, Dec 13, 2019 at 2:50 PM Ayden Férdeline <ayden at ferdeline.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi George,
>>
>> I am afraid I don't share your optimism. But I appreciate the attempt at
>> moving us forward to somewhere a little less combative.
>>
>> I think this webinar is premature. Yes, it is helpful to have more of a
>> dialogue with Ethos Capital. But unless they are coming forward with actual
>> plans - not hypotheticals, not ideas, not 'listening' for feedback - this
>> webinar will just be another hour of uncertainty. What we need now is real
>> information. We need to know what legal entity PIR will be becoming, what
>> it's bylaws will say, what it's business model is, what the pitch to
>> investors was. We don't want nor can we accept more open-ended statements
>> or breakable promises.
>>
>> If, as a show of good faith, Ethos does start disclosing that
>> information, then I agree we might be able to move forward and discuss the
>> role of this advisory council. But absent this information, being
>> well-intentioned isn't enough. When we're dealing with a newly-created
>> shell company, we need real assurances for the future.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Ayden Férdeline
>>
>>
>> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
>> On Friday, December 13, 2019 5:28 AM, George Sadowsky <
>> governance at lists.riseup.net> wrote:
>>
>> The announcement of this Webinar is a very promising development.
>>
>> Perhaps the most prevalent constant in this debate has been secrecy, or
>> lack of information, subjecting the discussion to an enormous stream of
>> hypotheticals. Ethos has been the most secretive to date, and now it
>> appears that next week they are planning to discuss their plans for .org.
>> I'm not sure what they will say, but I think that they deserve an equal
>> opportunity to be heard. What they say will help to inform the discussion.
>>
>> Sometimes in the heat of the moment we get wrapped up in an issue which,
>> while important, is dwarfed by others that are forgotten in the battle.
>> This may be one of those moments.
>>
>> Yesterday ISOC had a 90 minute webinar in which staff discussed their
>> programmatic plans for the future. I was very impressed with the
>> presenters, with the programmatic thrusts being planned and executed, and
>> with their willingness to be open with regard to how the plan was formed
>> -- in this case, with significant input from our community. When being
>> involved in the PIR debate, it's easy to forget that ISOC is an institution
>> whose goals we share, that has done an enormous amount of good work in the
>> past, and who seems dedicated to continue their efforts unabated into the
>> future. ISOC is an enormous asset to the open Internet and to the
>> Internet community.
>>
>> Like some of you, I felt a disappointment in the way in which the PIR
>> decision was handled, and assuming at portfolio diversification was the
>> goal, I believe that it could have been better achieved in a different
>> manner. But I would much rather accept and live with that disappointment
>> and see ISOC succeed, than see ISOC robbed of any opportunity to continue
>> its work effectively due to the lack of closure of the PIR debate.
>>
>> No matter how the PIR issue is resolved, we must come out of this
>> process, and soon, with an ISOC that is whole, able to do its work and able
>> to command the voluntary cooperation and affiliation and enthusiasm of a
>> strong membership.
>>
>> The eventual disposition of PIR should not be our primary concern, rather
>> it should be ensuring that the goals of ISOC that we share with them should
>> be furthered in the most effective manner possible. Let's remember that in
>> the course of this discussion and not make it more difficult to achieve the
>> real goal.
>>
>> George
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> George Sadowsky Residence tel:
>> +1.301.968.4325
>> 8300 Burdette Road, Apt B-472 Mobile:
>> +1.202.415.1933
>> Bethesda MD 20817-2831 USA Skype:
>> sadowsky
>> george.sadowsky at gmail.com http://www.georgesadowsky.org/
>>
>>
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>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> George Sadowsky Residence tel:
> +1.301.968.4325
> 8300 Burdette Road, Apt B-472 Mobile:
> +1.202.415.1933
> Bethesda MD 20817-2831 USA Skype:
> sadowsky
> george.sadowsky at gmail.com http://www.georgesadowsky.org/
>
>
>
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