[governance] [Internet Policy] About Iran and OFAC licenses.

[srajukanumuri]

why we all honest of world fight. we all know who are crooks criminals. IF
you want to change all honest must become #polticians #cronybiz or lastly
#mafia #slaves.

The slaves is last 3000 years it is continuing in the form of supposition
and lastly #GUNTERRORISM #USEPOWER  #?NAXALS #FAKE PASS PORT SCAMS by
#CMOTELNGANA #HYD and lastly support #terrorists in HYDERABAD IN INDIA for
power this is what UN USA etc are doing , The same model innovation all
countries world wide. IT is open Secret like open source etc

AWAKE ARISE SAVE MOTHER EARTH as #humanolgists #GODSHONESTSLAVES.

JIA HIND
kanumuri s raju
INDIA



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On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 9:20 PM, Kelly Mcgillvary <mcgillvary55 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> What's wrong with it is to many opinions and not enough action. Seems to
> me that the world is suspended in debates about LAW. Common sense basic
> humanity is not difficult to understand the internet is another noose
> around the people's neck. Same as energy we have no control whilst GREEDY
> WELL PAID INDIVIDUALS  debate. We are drowning passing the buck wont keep
> cutting it. WE ARE SLAVES TO THE GOVERNMENT WALKED ALL OVER AGAIN AND AGAIN.
> ------------------------------
> From: Brandt Dainow <brandt.dainow at gmail.com>
> Sent: ‎13/‎12/‎2016 11:47
> To: 'Richard Hill' <rhill at hill-a.ch>; 'Kave Salamatian'
> <kave.salamatian at me.com>; internetpolicy at elists.isoc.org
>
> Subject: Re: [Internet Policy] About Iran and OFAC licenses.
>
> Hi Richard, actually it’s not that simple.  While it may be accepted that
> an act which is illegal offline is also illegal online in most cases, this
> is not universal.  However, the issue for internet vs offline law is
> difficult when territorial jurisdiction is confused.  An online action may
> be deemed to occur in multiple conflicting jurisdictions simultaneously, or
> may affect citizens in multiple countries, all of whom claim jurisdiction,
> or be legal in one country and illegal in another.
>
>
>
> The confusion regarding the relationship between national law,
> international law and internet regulation is no more resolved now than it
> was 10 years ago.  So – the statement that the laws of a country should
> take priority when determining internet regulation is a very complex
> statement,  without a clear unambiguous meaning, and can be based on many
> different principles, which not everyone would agree to.   Furthermore, the
> original post did not limit itself to stating internet laws should be
> subservient to Iranian laws, it also stated there should be uniquely
> Iranian “standards.”  It is therefore a legitimate question, when someone
> says they believe one country’s laws should form the basis for internet
> regulation, to ask on what basis they make that claim.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Brandt Dainow
>
> brandt.dainow at gmail.com
>
>
>
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Brandt_Dainow
>
> http://www.imediaconnection.com/profiles/brandt.dainow
>
>
>
> *From:* Richard Hill [mailto:rhill at hill-a.ch]
> *Sent:* 12 December 2016 10:25
> *To:* Brandt Dainow; Kave Salamatian
> *Cc:* internetpolicy at elists.isoc.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Internet Policy] About Iran and OFAC licenses.
>
>
>
> Dear Brandt
>
>
>
> It is generally accepted that offline law applies equally online. And this
> for both international law and national law.
>
>
>
> Best
>
> Richard
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from Samsung Mobile.
>
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
>
> From: Brandt Dainow
>
> Date:12/12/2016 11:01 (GMT+01:00)
>
> To: Kave Salamatian
>
> Cc: internetpolicy at elists.isoc.org
>
> Subject: Re: [Internet Policy] About Iran and OFAC licenses.
>
>
>
> sorry for the confusion, I thought I was replying to the original poster.
> I regret that you saw assumptions in what I asked.  I was not aware that I
> had made any assumptions.  I am simply curious as to why someone would
> believe that their national laws should dictate internet regulation.  I
> have no position/belief on this matter myself, I am a philosopher
> specialising in the internet.  I am therefore interested to learn why
> people believe what they do about internet regulation, in an effort to
> discover the underlying philosophical premises they base their thinking
> upon.  Please do not, therefore, assume that questioning why someone
> believes something is a form of disagreement or criticism.
>
>
>
> On 9 December 2016 at 10:38, Kave Salamatian <kave.salamatian at me.com>
> wrote:
>
> Dear Brandt,
>
>
>
> I am wondering why you answer to Mahdi a mail sent by Noor and put in your
> answer assumptions that Mahdi never did ?
>
>
>
> Kv
>
> Envoyé de mon iPhone
>
>
> Le 9 déc. 2016 à 11:27, Brandt Dainow <brandt.dainow at gmail.com> a écrit :
>
> Hi Mahdi, there seem to be some assumptions behind your position which are
> not obvious from your statement.  In every field of human activity, some
> countries always start first and influence development.  That does not
> automatically mean their influence is harmful to others.  The fact the
> internet started in the USA does not automatically mean its current form is
> harmful to other countries.  How are existing standards contrary to Iranian
> culture or law?
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Brandt Dainow
>
> brandt.dainow at gmail.com
>
>
>
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Brandt_Dainow
>
> http://www.imediaconnection.com/profiles/brandt.dainow
>
>
>
> *From:* InternetPolicy [mailto:internetpolicy-bounces at elists.isoc.org
> <internetpolicy-bounces at elists.isoc.org>] *On Behalf Of *Noor Ul Mushtaq
> (+971562044567 <+971%2056%20204%204567>)
> *Sent:* 09 December 2016 10:20
> *To:* Mahdi Taghizadeh
> *Cc:* internetpolicy at elists.isoc.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Internet Policy] About Iran and OFAC licenses.
>
>
>
> It is very important for Iran to create own standards as compared to BS &
> US standards. So far internet & related rules are monopolized by certain
> nations.
>
> Cyber-security laws etc should comply with Iranian laws first.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 12:56 PM, Mahdi Taghizadeh <i at mahdi.ws> wrote:
>
> Dear All,
>
>
>
> I also want to know if any progress has been made on this issue.
>
>
>
> I should have been in Mexico now as an ISOC Ambassador to IGF 2016 but
> missed this opportunity because of OFAC sanctions.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 2:46 PM Kave Salamatian <kave.salamatian at me.com>
> wrote:
>
> Dear All, Raul,
>
>
>
> we are almost three months after the below mail and the IGF has already
> begun in Mexico. During this time lapse we did not had any news from ISOC
> management about the steps taken to solve the issue raised by OFAC
> implication in ISOC activities.
>
>
>
> I think that beyond myself there is other members of the list that would
> like to know if any steps has been made to solve the issues. As an element
> of answer it has took 3 weeks for other institutions (IEEE for example), to
> get an agreement of OFAC on issues similar to the one under discussion.
>
>
>
> Looking forward for the answer of ISOC management,
>
>
>
> Many thanks,
>
>
>
> Kavé Salamatian
>
>
>
>
>
> > Le 19 sept. 2016 à 18:26, Raul Echeberria <echeberria at isoc.org> a écrit
> :
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Dear all:
>
> >
>
> > I changed the subject of the thread because the previous subject was by
> itself both and exaggeration and a misstatement.
>
> >
>
> > I will try to explain as much clear as possible what is the situation
> and what’s the solution trying to not refer to any specific previous email.
>
> >
>
> > Internet Society is a non for profit international and independent
> organization, not dependent of any government of the world. The
> organizations is incorporated in several countries for several reasons. Due
> to that we have to follow the laws of the countries in which we are
> incorporated. One of those countries is United States.
>
> >
>
> > According the US Law, any organization incorporated in the country has
> to comply with “….. economic and trade sanctions based on US foreign policy
> and national security goals against targeted foreign countries and
> regimes……”
>
> > The local organization responsible of leading with this is the OFAC
> (Office of Foreign Assets Control).
>
> >
>
> > There is a broad variety of sanctions related to different countries. If
> you want to run some permitted activities in (or with) any of those
> countries, you need to get an OFAC license.
>
> >
>
> > Funding an Iranian citizen to participate in the IGF looks as something
> possible and legal to do. But we still need a license. It’s not an
> overreaction of our lawyers. Consultations were made and our conclusion is
> that we can’t do that without a license.
>
> >
>
> > It doesn’t matter if you do it through a third party or from any other
> of our offices from around the globe, it continue being illegal. If not it
> would be very easy to by pass any sanction to any country from any other
> country.
>
> > Some cases has been mentioned in the discussion and they clearly refer
> to organizations who already have gotten the license so they are not doing
> different things, it is just they already did something that we still have
> to do.
>
> >
>
> > We have already faced similar situations in the past (not many
> fortunately) and we got the license and so, the restrictions were removed.
> This is the same we will do in this case. Of course (and this should be
> obvious to every good faith people) we not only don’t have anything against
> the participation of Iranians in IGF or any other IG forum, but we think
> and feel exactly the opposite, and that’s the reason why we originally had
> selected this person to participate in our IGF Ambassador Program.
>
> > In parallel there is people who are trying to form an Internet Society
> Chapter in Iran and it will also require an OFAC license so we are even
> more motivated to do everything we need.
>
> >
>
> > As i said before, it takes time and money to do it. I don’t know how
> other organizations work, but we follow the procedures and there is not any
> alternative to get a license in few days or weeks.
>
> >
>
> > If in the past Internet Society preferred to proceed in other ways
> deciding to not perform activities in those countries instead of to do the
> possible to be able to perform those activities, that’s something I don’t
> know and can not make an opinion about that. What I can say is that’s the
> way we will deal with this situation and it is the same way we would
> proceed in other similar cases.
>
> >
>
> > I don’t see any reason why we could not do things in Iran, but the fact
> is that we can not do them right now.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I hope this is enough clear to everybody. I think I have tried to
> address all the concerns expressed in the
>
>
> [The entire original message is not included.]
>
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