[governance] ICANN/FIFA

Fri May 29 03:55:09 EDT 2015

- Wolfang,
> Corruption belongs not to a legal system, would it be Swiss or US - not sure why you point at Swiss law, and not Californian law: that contains a very odd understatement.
> Corruption has many forms and since 1998 ICANN has proved it was not able to bring a straight record on this, by far. Let's spare the e-list with an inventory. And let's not to mention its regrettable submission to US dominance (not fair to non US)
> The attribution of the gTLD ".ngo" to PIR(=>ISOC =>ICANN) is highly questionable. Some could come to the conclusion this gTLD has been given in a fashion that is perfect example of what FIFA should not be doing (sorry ICANN).

- Jeremy
> Corruption can be found anywhere including in the non profit sector, and in civil society. The call by JNC regarding transparency is most legitimate and needed. In a previous email you mention accountability, which is a very different topic, and your comment was rather out of scope. JNC's call should be addressed by the participants.
> I appreciate you to ask JNC to consult a shrink for "behavioral treatment". I think all JNC members will also appreciate the idea that they are the new inquisitioners, or the new McCarthys. After calling us "dicks" and other niceties, I do wonder who needs to consult a medic first. I find your last email exactly doing what you ask other not to do. Toxic writing? More seriously, I ask the moderator of the IGC list to tell us what they think about such statements by a subscriber. FORMAL REQUEST.

- David (Cake)
> Corruption has little to do with a system based on national representation. Study, source? I mean more than within the private sector, or any other space.
> Thanks for acknowledging that "accountability and TRANSPARENCY are important factors". Maybe Jeremy should talk to you about this, as he has difficulties to talk to JNC about such critical issue.
> JNC focusing on games at "democracy"? JNC has called for more transparency among participants to the current IG space: would that be playing game or would it be "focusing on the practical push for accountability..." Not sure who is getting confused here.
> JNC has been fighting over the introduction of a democratic pulse within IG. I see JNC has deserving recognition for that. Is fighting for democratic principles within a social community of public interest (IG) a "game", or isn't more simply part of the political debate (democracy) and the need for a different Internet governance (out of US domination by its public and private leadership)

Everyone can take the lessons he wants to take.

JC

Le 29 mai 2015 à 09:26, Kleinwächter, Wolfgang a écrit :

> Hi,
> 
> one lesson is that the service a group delivers has to be linked to strong accountability mechanism. Insofar, ICANNs Accountability discussion, which has started last year as an open, transparent and bottom up process with the involvement of all stakeholders is a key for ICANN´s future and the good service people expect from ICANN. BTW, FIFA operates under Swiss jurisdiction. ;-(((.
> 
> Wolfgang
> 
> 
> 
> :------Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org im Auftrag von David Cake
> Gesendet: Fr 29.05.2015 09:06
> An: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Michael Gurstein
> Betreff: Re: [governance] ICANN/FIFA
> 
> Obviously those who are more familiar with ICANN and FIFA would probably point out that the parallels are really not very strong. They are both international organisations that are non-government, but otherwise they are very different. FIFA is an association of national associations, ICANN is not.
> 
> But it is a timely reminder for the need for strong accountability mechanisms. Which is probably why many of the ICANN engaged people on this list have been relatively quiet over the last year, as many of them have been involved either with the IANA transition (which has been very much concerned with structural accountability issues - how ICANN can be made responsible to those who, directly or indirectly, use IANA) or the accompanying accountability process (which is focussed on broader accountability issues with ICANN).
> (I myself have not been strongly involved with those processes, but I know Avri, Robin, Milton, and others have been spending many hours every week, which is probably why I sometimes have time to respond to cheap shots like this one).
> 
> But if you'd like a few lessons that might be drawn:
> direct voting on a national representative basis is absolutely no defence against corruption.
> From which we might presume that accountability and transparency are more important factors in preventing corruption. Perhaps JNC might consider shifting its focus from games about the word 'democracy' and focus on the practical push for the accountability and transparency mechanisms that are a vital part of any democratic process.
> 
> Regards
> 
> 	David
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 29 May 2015, at 2:13 pm, Michael Gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> As I watch along with I'm sure many others, the events consuming FIFA I am of course, reminded of the often made parallels between FIFA and ICANN, particularly in reference to proposed models for governance of global non-governmental organizations as for example in the area of accountability.
>> 
>> So, I'm wondering from among with those with far more knowledge concerning ICANN than myself, what lessons if any might one draw from what is being exposed concerning FIFA and how might that figure into what if anything will be an outcome of the current IANA transition discussions?
>> 
>> M
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