[governance] Whose lives are we helping, anyway? WAS Re: [bestbits] Remarks at UNESCO Closing Ceremony of "Connecting the Dots Conference"
Michael Gurstein
gurstein at gmail.com
Mon Mar 9 14:27:45 EDT 2015
(This was drafted before I read George's most recent note and I agree that
the discussion, hopefully revealing to some, is now getting somewhat
repetitious and addressing the questions George poses might be a worthwhile
exercise...
Nick (and George), you may believe this discussion is just about words but
clearly the USG and it's allies with their "redline" position against
democracy in Internet Governance, think differently. (If it was just "words"
why threaten to walk out if "democracy" is included.) BTW, show of
(digital) hands here, how many people think that this discussion is just
about "words"?
I'm quite prepared to agree to the statement from the NM if only I could
understand it... It seems to me that in the crafting of diplo speak they
have squared circles and put horns on horses and created unicorns but I'll
suspend final judgement until someone does an explication and makes some
elaboration on what this formulation might look like in practice.
Re: your point about a major objective for the original WSIS was ensuring
that the Internet was accessible to and usable by and for the benefit of all
(which has now been largely forgotten by the MSists). You may recall my
noting that a major failing of the Brazil Net Mundial was its failure to
address these issues in any significant way and I attributed this to their
failure to in fact be effectively multi-stakeholder i.e. they overlooked (or
perhaps systematically excluded) the primary stakeholders in this area, the
rural and marginalized populations (and those such as Community Informatics
folks) who work with these populations and on their behalf.
Re: WB's rather bizarre characterization of this conversation as "bizarre",
perhaps this could be explained by the fact that he is evidently the
official spokesperson for the 1% WEF ++"s attempted insertion into Internet
Governance on behalf of the MSists through the NMI.
M
-----Original Message-----
From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
[mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Nick Ashton-Hart
Sent: March 9, 2015 9:12 AM
To: Governance; Wolfgang Kleinwächter
Cc: Norbert Bollow; wolfgang.benedek at uni-graz.at;
bestbits at lists.bestbits.net
Subject: [governance] Whose lives are we helping, anyway? WAS Re: [bestbits]
Remarks at UNESCO Closing Ceremony of "Connecting the Dots Conference"
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A wise intervention. Even if people don't agree with NMI I think that langu=
age is excellent.
On a larger point, I have to ask - plead, really - for everyone to ask your=
self: the source of all of IG is WSIS, which was intended to make people's =
lives better and close the digital divide etc. Is all this hostility over t=
he form of words at one meeting leading anywhere on that continuum?
This is the year when it is possible to connect WSIS' targets with achievin=
g the SDGs - and in doing so become a part of something bigger than WSIS, a=
nd bigger than technology.=20
I beg you all - think about the bigger picture. I have seen a great deal of=
arguing over words but almost no debate about how to ensure the next decad=
e of WSIS is more focussed on improving the lives of real people and truly =
bridging the digital divide - in every sense of the word.
As someone who sits through international meetings across silos, from trade=
, to IG to human rights to development - IG discussions are the furthest aw=
ay from actually benefiting any real people's lives.=20
I would love to someday be able to say the opposite is true. I dearly hope =
it is this year - otherwise, a once-in-a-decade opportunity is lost.
On 9 Mar 2015, at 16:05, Kleinw=E4chter, Wolfgang <wolfgang.kleinwaechter at m=
edienkomm.uni-halle.de> wrote:
> Hi
>=20
> I propose that all discussant agree now - after this bizarre
>wortdsmithin=
g discussion - on Principle 9.1 of the Sao Paulo Declaration which states:
>=20
> 9.INTERNET GOVERNANCE PROCESS PRINCIPLES: 9.1 Multistakeholder:
>Internet =
governance should be built on democratic, multistakeholder processes, ensur=
ing the meaningful and accountable participation of all stakeholders, inclu=
ding governments, the private sector, civil society, the technical communit=
y, the academic community and users. The respective roles and responsibilit=
ies of stakeholders should be interpreted in a flexible manner with referen=
ce to the issue under discussion.=20
>=20
>=20
> It would be good if those CS Groups who had some reservations in Sao
>Paul=
o rejoin now the NetMundial Initiative and contribute to the implementation=
of 9.1.
>=20
> Wolfgang
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org im Auftrag von Norbert
>Bollow
> Gesendet: Mo 09.03.2015 15:40
> An: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Benedek, Wolfgang
>(wolfgang.benedek at un=
i-graz.at)
> Cc: bestbits at lists.bestbits.net
> Betreff: Re: [governance] [bestbits] Remarks at UNESCO Closing
> Ceremony o=
f "Connecting the Dots Conference"
>=20
> On Mon, 9 Mar 2015 12:12:42 +0100
> "Benedek, Wolfgang (wolfgang.benedek at uni-graz.at)"
> <wolfgang.benedek at uni-graz.at> wrote:
>=20
>> on the issue of democracy in international instruments like the UDHR
>> and the ICCPR, it should be noted that democracy is neither used in
>> Article 21 of the Universal Declaration nor in Article 25 of the
>> ICCPR, which speak of participation in government of one's country,
>> periodic elections etc
>=20
> Yes, indeed. Where the principle of democracy is referred to in
>relation to governments, in those texts the word "democracy" is not
>used, but instead a very very central aspect of makes a society and its
>government democratic is spelled out explicitly.
>=20
>> The limitation clause in Article 29 UDHR states that rights can be
>> restricted for the sake of the general welfare in a democratic
>> society. As the UDHR is not a binding convention there is no
>> authoritative interpretation of this phrase by an international human
>> rights body to my knowledge.
>=20
> Actually the phrase, with some variations (in which the word
>"democratic" occurs in a similar construction, and I would say,
>certainly with the same meaning) is also in binding human rights
>instruments. In particular, here are some references: ICCPR, Art. 14,
>Art. 21, Art. 22. ICESCR, Art. 4.
>=20
> Greetings,
> Norbert
>=20
>> However, in the context of the European Convention on Human Rights,
>>the European Court of Human Rights regularly requires a "pressing
>>social need" for restrictions which are possible based on the similar
>>limitation clause "necessary in a democratic society". More and
>>examples in my book with Matthias Kettemann on Freedom of Expression
>>and the Internet, Council of Europe 2014.
>>=20
>> Wolfgang Benedek
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> Am 09.03.15 11:54 schrieb "Norbert Bollow" unter <nb at bollow.ch>:
>>=20
>>> On Mon, 9 Mar 2015 16:16:17 +0800
>>> David Cake <dave at difference.com.au> wrote:
>>>=20
>>>> Jeremy claims that if the inclusion of the term in descriptions of
>>>> mutti-stakeholder bodies means anything concrete, it means
>>>> retaining a special role for government (in, presumably, all
>>>> situations, not just those areas like law enforcement that
>>>> governments have a special role intrinsically by law). JNC denies
>>>> that interpretation - so please, what IS your interpretation of
>>>> what the term democratic in the context you discuss would mean.
>>>=20
>>> I hereby assure you that JNC has every intention of publishing a
>>>position paper which will address this in some depth. I will post
>>>about this when it is available.
>>>=20
>>> In the meantime, you and/or others might be interested in reflecting
>>>on what is the precise meaning of the word "democratic" in the
>>>context of the very interesting way in which this word is used in
>>>Article 29 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
>>>=20
>>> Greetings,
>>> Norbert
>>> co-convenor, Just Net Coalition (JNC) http://JustNetCoalition.org
>>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
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>=20
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