[governance] Towards an Internet Social Forum

Fri Feb 6 18:58:09 EST 2015

Interesting Wolfgang (and David pointed to this as well...

Is anyone doing systematic research on this particularly within a research
protocol that reflects some of the issues currently being discussed on this
list and elsewhere with respect to MS models?

M

-----Original Message-----
From: "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang"
[mailto:wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de] 
Sent: Friday, February 06, 2015 2:09 PM
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; michael gurstein;
governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Jeremy Malcolm
Subject: AW: [governance] Towards an Internet Social Forum

An interesting test case for a "new MSM" could become the process underway
with the IANA Transition and ICANN accountability. This is "learning by
doing" and procedures are emerging in a bottom up, open and transparent
process.

Wolfgang

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org im Auftrag von michael gurstein
Gesendet: Fr 06.02.2015 21:00
An: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; 'Jeremy Malcolm'
Betreff: RE: [governance] Towards an Internet Social Forum

As I've said before I personally would be delighted to explore with you or
anyone else innovations in global Internet mediated governance.  I think
this is particularly important and even necessary in our current historical
moment given the challenges that the Internet transformations are
introducing including through onrushing globalism, the quite general
disillusionment with traditional forms of democratic representation, and the
challenges to and seeming stalling or even retreat of effective democratic
participation in governance in many parts of the world.  

I personally think that it is an open question, but one very much worth
serious examination as to how various alternative approaches to more broadly
effective governance such as MSism might be enabled in the current context
and if or how they might contribute to more effective democracy/democracies
and democratic governance. 

I think that this would be a most desirable and useful interim alternative
to simply asserting the necessity, superiority and benefits of MSism and
then proceeding to attempt to create highly contestible MS realities on the
ground.

M

-----Original Message-----
From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
[mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Jeremy Malcolm
Sent: Friday, February 06, 2015 11:26 AM
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
Subject: Re: [governance] Towards an Internet Social Forum

On 5/02/2015 11:30 pm, michael gurstein wrote:
> Each time you've asked you've been answered, so I'm not sure that 
> anything I could say would satisfy you, even if I had the time to 
> reply at length which I don't.  So just some quick points.
>
> [MG>] and a few in return... (and yes, each time I've been "answered" 
> with similar statements as below i.e. statements of the "well we can't 
> point to anything right now but come back in xxx years or so and we'll 
> have a good set of MS models to show you...; circular and 
> self-reflexive arguments/definitions;  pointing to unpublished Ph.D.
> theses; that sort of thing... hardly the stuff for replacing 3000 
> years of building popular democracy and hardly sufficient (hopefully) 
> to persuade us to all stampede towards governance by unelected elites 
> unless you are already committed in that direction...

I knew I should have followed my better judgment and not replied.  Can we
henceforth just save some time and accept that you are less open to
exploring multi-stakeholder innovations in democratic global governance than
other of us are, and leave it at that?  Rather than mischaracterising these
efforts as promoting "governance by unelected elites" which long ago became
tiresome.

> [MG>] This is the best you can do? Describing the governance model to 
> which you are asking the world to entrust the electronic 
> infrastructure which increasingly underlies all aspects of daily 
> life--as "a work in progress"; as the "work" of a [ rant snipped here 
> ] as a bunch of half cooked proposals squirreled away in inaccessible 
> jargon and inaccessible blogs; and as a one two day event organized to 
> respond to an Internet calamity and then hijacked to support the interests
of precisely those who sponsored the calamity...

I don't focus on ICANN but as you (should) know I have been as critical as
anyone of the IGF, probably much more so, and I have also acknowledged the
shortcomings of NETmundial, but you have to weigh up the value of just
lambasting any imperfect process as irredeemably evil, against the potential
benefits of acknowledging that a start has been made, and working to improve
it.  The latter is my preferred approach.

--
Jeremy Malcolm
Senior Global Policy Analyst
Electronic Frontier Foundation
https://eff.org
jmalcolm at eff.org

Tel: 415.436.9333 ext 161

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