[governance] Democracy and IG (was Re: Text of Parminder's input)

[Mawaki Chango]

On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 1:20 PM, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net>
 wrote:

(snippets, from latest reply in thread under subject line: "Text of
Parminder's input")

>
>
> In sum: in absolute terms 'democracy' may be unclear and confusing, but it
> so much less so in relative terms. And for practical actors, it is the
> relative that matters.
>
>
> Mawaki, basically, I am disagreeing with both the (related)  propositions
>
> 1. That there is a huge amount of confusion around 'democratic'
>

Just to be clear, I was humbly referring to my proposed ordering  of the
arguments when I used the term 'confusing'.


>
> 2. There are any dangers or risks of democracy (as you mention below)
>

​Your whole argument, Parminder, has been heard loud and clear by this
participant.  ​



On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 11:41 AM, Norbert Bollow <nb at bollow.ch> wrote:

> On Tue, 22 Dec 2015 10:59:37 +0000
> Mawaki Chango <kichango at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > The reluctance from some to apply the
> > category of democracy to Internet governance stems from the
> > limitations (and risks? dangers?) of democracy in their eyes.
>
> At least in my understanding of those those viewpoints, they are not
> primarily intended to be anti-democratic and in fact I'm sure that many
> of the proponents of those viewpoints see themselves as being firmly
> pro-democratic.
>

​Sure! Just to be clear, I didn't mean to suggest that they had
anti-democratic leanings. As pro-democratic as we may all be (or most of us
anyway), we may still be critical about how far democracy has taken us and
can still take us, and particularly whether it offers the best governance
model to apply to IG, which AFAIK is the specific and sole context
the arguments
​ I was trying to
recap w
​ere
 meant
​for​
.
​


>
> IMO the fears and concerns in relation to JNC and others insisting
> that like all other areas of governance, Internet governance must of
> course be democratic, arise from the following two facts:
>
> 1) It is hard to imagine an implementation of the principles of
> democracy that would not be state-based.
>
> 2) So far the track record of state actions in relation to the Internet
> is really, really bad, both for democratic and for non-democratic
> states.
>
> > Is
> > there a thoughtful - and as comprehensive as possible - articulation
> > of those limitations, risks and/or dangers to be found somewhere? Do
> > we think the two sets of concerns are irreconcilable?
>
> IMO it is certainly possible to create governance mechanisms that are
> suitable for Internet governance and other global concerns, and which
> are at the same time democratic and conductive to achieving good
> results.
>

​I guess all the devil here is in that "achieving good results." What is
good for one, is that good for the other?​

​I guess I shall be looking for a response to that question the wisdom task
force proposal.​


> I have a concrete proposal at
> ​​
> http://wisdomtaskforce.org/


​While I haven't read all of it (yet... hopefully), this seems to point to
the right direction overall if the purpose is to achieve the goal of
effective decision-making mechanism based on democratic principles, which
will be acceptable to all, both individual participants and stakeholders.

I guess your response is nudging me to clarify and complement the question
I previously put to one side of the argument by formulating a two-sided
request. It would be most useful if:

1. On the one hand, the party that doesn't want any reference to democracy
when it comes to IG can point to or develop a systematic critical
assessment of democracy (more specifically, of democratic governance
processes) as may relate to the global IG context, including the issues
they seek to thus resolve or avoid; and

2. On the other hand, the party insisting on having IG processes to be
democratic can point to or develop a working mechanism of democratic
decision-making and governance that will be applicable in the global IG
context (and if I understand it correctly, this is what the IWTF proposal
is about?)  ​

​Mawaki​



>
>
> Greetings,
> Norbert
>
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