[bestbits] [governance] Re: [IRPCoalition] Time-sensitive: 24 hour sign on period for ITU Plenipot joint recommendations

Fri Oct 24 18:25:30 EDT 2014

How does 'those who contribute' equate to a self selected elite?

On 24 October 2014 5:59:09 pm "michael gurstein" <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:

> The issue is not of course whether there should be the broadest base of 
> “consultation” possible prior to decision making (including 
> “multi-stakeholder” presumably because those involved will have direct 
> knowledge of the affairs under discussion).  This is quite different from 
> “governance” which includes processes of actual decision making—allocation 
> of resources, determination of benefits and so on. Including corporate 
> foxes (for example) to guard public henhouses strikes me as an exceedingly 
> bad way of proceeding.
>
>
>
> The issue is to whom are the decision makers ultimately accountable—in a 
> Democracy, aspirationally to “the people”, in a MSist world to 
> self-selected elite “stakeholders”.
>
>
>
> M
>
>
>
> From: bestbits-request at lists.bestbits.net 
> [mailto:bestbits-request at lists.bestbits.net] On Behalf Of Sivasubramanian M
> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2014 1:06 PM
> To: David Allen
> Cc: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Bits bestbits at lists.bestbits.net; 
> forum at justnetcoalition.org
> Subject: Re: [bestbits] [governance] Re: [IRPCoalition] Time-sensitive: 24 
> hour sign on period for ITU Plenipot joint recommendations
>
>
>
> Dear David Allen,
>
>
>
> It requires different variations of the Multi-Stakeholder model for 
> different purposes. For the purpose of Internet Governance, we have 700 
> seats in the room with 7000 participants in rotation, with 70 million 
> others listening, which is sufficient. If we are extending this thought to 
> the government of Nations or the World, then it would not be a replacement 
> for Democracy, but an enhancement (or call it a Complement), in the sense 
> that the Elected Representatives and the Appointed Functionaries would 
> involve the rest of the people in day  to day debates and decisions by 
> using the Multi-stakeholder model. So, in a scenario where the 
> multi-stakeholder model is extended to the larger arena of Governance, 
> after elections, those elected would make choices by the multi-staekholder 
> model.
>
>
>
> There is a positive, apolitical reason why Multi-stakeholder model would be 
> advantageous. We often find that Governments do not always find solutions 
> to problems, some of which are complex problems. Think of the 
> multi-stakeholder process as a process of consulting Stakeholders who are 
> experts in their own respective sphere. Governments get to have varied 
> expertise leading to creative solutions to problems that they are either 
> unable to solve, or ineffectively resolve.
>
>
>
> Sivasubramanian M
>
>
>
>
> Sivasubramanian M <https://www.facebook.com/sivasubramanian.muthusamy>
>
> +1 (213) 300 8293 Oct 11-19 2014
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at 1:19 AM, David Allen 
> <David_Allen_AB63 at post.harvard.edu> wrote:
>
> Ah yes, you complain that, after elections, only those elected make 
> choices.  Though of course, those who did the electing did make a choice, 
> of their representatives, in the first place ...
>
>
>
> But you imagine some evolution to a model where anyone who shows up has a 
> place - and those who do not, of course, well too bad for them ...   Hmmm ...
>
>
>
> In the first case, there is opportunity for the masses to speak through the 
> ballot box.  And for the second place, you will arrange for a table with 7 
> billion places at it?  And arrange to get everyone there?  So, since there 
> is no ballot box, they can speak?
>
>
>
> Or, you prefer CJ Leung's [Hong Kong] approach, where we 'don't want to be 
> representing the poor folk'?  So ceding power to the powerful?
>
>
>
> David
>
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 24, 2014, at 3:35 PM, Sivasubramanian M <isolatedn at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> It is not fair to say that the Multistakeholder model restricts 
> participation. In fact the opposite is true because this new model has a 
> working framework in place for bringing in participants other than elected 
> representatives and appointed functionaries ( would not be very wrong to 
> class these them both under "Government") to the table. And it is too early 
> in the evolutionary phase of multistakeholder model to draw a conclusion 
> that the participating stakeholders are not representative enough.
>
>
>
> The contrary of what you said is true. By its definition, by its 
> intentions, and by the framework already in place, Multistakeholderism DOES 
> extend AND broaden the opportunity for EFFECTIVE participation.
>
>
>
>
> Sivasubramanian M <https://www.facebook.com/sivasubramanian.muthusamy>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 11:49 PM, michael gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> MSism as presented bears absolutely no relationship to Participatory 
> Democracy, in fact it is exactly the opposite—rather than extending or 
> broadening the opportunity for effective participation MSism restricts this 
> by putting the condition of “stakeholdership”
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
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