[governance] Re: NMI and the Brazilian CGI.br
Jean-Christophe Nothias
jeanchristophe.nothias at gmail.com
Sun Nov 30 14:07:44 EST 2014
Dear Carlos,
I think we all agree in trying to balance our views before coming to conclusion.
As a Frenchman, I always like to see by your signature, the "fraternal regards". As you know we have made it part of our national identity (liberté, égalité, fraternité) - with ups and downs - and that sense of brotherhood surely starts with naming correctly each other. Jean-Louis is not Jean, and Jean-Christophe is not Jean. And you are not Juan-Carlos, right? I thank you for that having a fraternal mutual consideration on this.
On the neoliberal policies you are pointing at, maybe this is taking us all a little too far out of hands. Not sure that this characterization will support our mutual understanding. Brazil is a big country and what is doing CGIbr or the steering committee might not entirely reflect the Brazilian government stance over transnational Internet public policy issues. If any Brazilian part of the Social Forum has survived over the years, he might not be fully satisfied with the initiative, something that we have been arguing so much these last weeks. We know it is always more complicated. By the way what's the Brazilian telecommunication authorities' view on netmundial conference and initiative? I am not sure they were invited or contributing to the summit, but do they share the same view as CGIbr for now? Have the Brazilian government made a specific statement on the 'initiative'. Would be happy to read it. That would be helpful.
Best,
JC
Le 30 nov. 2014 à 19:18, Carlos Afonso a écrit :
> Hi Jean, I am a Brazilian, from São Paulo and living in Rio. No one saw "hundreds of thousands" in the streets in June 2013 or any other time except in the 80's with the campaign for direct elections for president and the 90' with the movement for ethics in politics. Brazil has 142 million voters. It takes a lot more than a few hundreds of 1-2 thousand people in Paulista Avenue to be representative of the will of Brazilian people.
>
> Nice to be sitting comfortably somewhere in Europe and doing this kind of shallow evaluation of our political process. You should better take a look at the disastrous neoliberal policies being practiced in Europe since the 2008 crisis.
>
> fraternal regards
>
> --c.a.
>
> On 11/30/14 18:47, Jean-Louis FULLSACK wrote:
>> Dear Carlos
>>
>> Yoiu wote :
>>
>> < there is no one who could say WEF indoctrinated Lula, or that WEF took
>> the reigns
>> of the government of Brazil.
>>
>> You are right : there were hundreds of thousand Brasilians -Indignados
>> and others- in the streets and places to protest about Lula's and
>> Dilma's "softened" policy.
>>
>> BTW, Davos is hosting annually a "policicy softening course of
>> treatment" ...
>>
>> Best regards
>>
>> Jean-louis Fullsack
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > Message du 23/11/14 00:47
>> > De : "Carlos Afonso" <ca at cafonso.ca>
>> > A : "Suresh Ramasubramanian" <suresh at hserus.net>,
>> "governance at lists.igcaucus.org" <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>,
>> "parminder at itforchange.net" <parminder at itforchange.net>
>> > Copie à : "Hartmut Richard Glaser" <glaser at cgi.br>,
>> "bestbits at lists.bestbits.net" <bestbits at lists.bestbits.net>
>> > Objet : Re: [governance] Re: NMI and the Brazilian CGI.br
>> >
>> > Dear people,
>> >
>> > In January 2003, Lula was just starting his first term as
>> president. As
>> > usual he went to the World Social Forum where he was met with
>> massive
>> > acclamation. I remember crying like a child to experience in loco
>> the
>> > thousands of people cheering Lula.
>> >
>> > From Porto Alegre he went to Davos.(*) Yes, that daunting lair of
>> > corporate devils! A group of militants, NGOs and social movements of
>> > course criticized Lula, along the same lines JNC does today as a
>> sort of
>> > scion of its view of political correctness. But other militants,
>> NGOs
>> > and social movements supported Lula's visit to WEF (I was among
>> them) --
>> > our president had to establish dialogue with all sectors, and
>> there is
>> > no one who could say WEF indoctrinated Lula, or that WEF took the
>> reigns
>> > of the government of Brazil. If anything happened, it would be
>> the other
>> > way around.
>> >
>> > I like to recall this story because it reminds me of the fury of
>> > arguments at the time -- just like we see today the different
>> > (adversarial?) camps of civil society nailing each other.
>> >
>> > fraternal regards
>> >
>> > --c.a.
>> >
>> > (*) See, for example, this report:
>> >
>> http://www.ictsd.org/bridges-news/biores/news/two-world-forums-debate-globalisation
>> >
>> > On 11/22/14 21:30, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> I am greatly disappointed that so many friends in the CGI.Br
>> has now come
>> > >> out to vouchsafe or front for what is basically a WEF and
>> ICANN (basically
>> > >> doing US's bidding) game.
>> > >
>> > > Disappointed? My heart bleeds for you, to be sure.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >> everyone knows WEF to be. Do the Brazilians, who kind of gave
>> the world
>> > >> the World Social Forum, really need to be reminded of the
>> basic lessons
>> > >> with regard to the designs of global domination by a certain
>> economic and
>> > >> political elite, and their impatience with democracy,
>> especially at the
>> > >> global level!
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > > Now you call them naïve. How incredibly patronizing.
>> > >
>> > > Any so called "democracy" of the sort you seem to want, that
>> excludes stakeholders based on any nationality and/or economic
>> backgrounds that you dislike, is emphatically not a democracy, but
>> merely pure demagoguery. Makes me glad that you continue to remain
>> far, far away from the civil society mainstream thinking on this
>> subject.
>> > >
>> > >> Again, you are fast expending the political capital that the
>> Brazilian
>> > >> government and CGI.Br has, something that I find to be such a
>> great loss,
>> > >> and very much hope were not the case. *The global progressive
>> community
>> > >> has consistently supported you, but this support cannot be
>> taken for
>> > >
>> > > I admire how you keep attempting to speak for the global
>> progressive community, in pushing the regressive agenda that you
>> continue to push, and that the majority of the community apparently
>> doesn't share.
>> > >
>> > >> granted, which is my unfortunate duty to tell you, as you come out
>> > >> publicly to seek global support for a WEF centred global
>> governance
>> > >> initiative.*
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > > Your support, and those of the small splinter group of
>> extremists that caucus with you? Well, may the good Lord preserve us
>> all from such support.
>> > >
>> > >> Your statement says that you are willing to dialogue and work
>> together
>> > >> with everyone. Some of us from global progressive civil
>> society offer
>> > >> ourselves for such a dialogue. We have in our hands today the
>> interests
>> > >> and fate of the people of the world, and of the future
>> generations. Let
>> > >
>> > > That sounds more like a royal "We" than any sort of
>> inclusiveness. Do stop trying to speak for civil society at large.
>> You don't and have never represented it all.
>> > >
>> > > --srs
>> > >
>> >
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>
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