[governance] Consensus or rough consensus?

Suresh Ramasubramanian suresh at hserus.net
Wed May 21 01:14:54 EDT 2014 

The number of disparate factions in civil society (some of which are politically driven rather than focused on anything that remotely approaches development) are just what make adoption of a UN consensus model among civil society groups untenable.  Rough consensus might work ..

After that, the rest of the "broad range of civil society" might indeed be affected by igov issues but they either don't know or don't quite care .. 

Like a charity that works on ensuring that kids in a drought stricken part of India have access to food and healthcare, or one that operates an animal shelter, would care that the internet "works" in that they can access mail / IM / their website, but the petty backbiting that characterizes the average civil society "discussion" here would be of little or no relevance to them.

Anyone who claims to speak on their behalf had better be very sure that he represents their interests rather than his own.

--srs (iPad)

> On 21-May-2014, at 10:25, "michael gurstein" <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Underlying that question, Ian is a rather more fundamental one which equally needs to be resolved and that is who is the “we” that you are presenting yourself as speaking from/on behalf of.
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> Is it the 50-100 or so of those calling themselves “civil society” active in these discussions?
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> Is it the several hundreds who present themselves as speaking for “civil society” at discussions like NetMundial/IGF.
>  
> Is it the somewhat larger but still very small numbers of those involved in the civil society networks aware of and concerned with these issues and being represented (or not) in forums such as NetMundial.
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> Or is it the broad range of “civil society” who in their vast and increasing numbers have a direct stake in these issues but have yet to fully recognize their significance in the midst of the range of other equally crucial issues that they are currently confronting at all levels.
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> Depending on how you/others choose to answer and respond through your actions to that question a different result for your question is likely to entail.
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> From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Ian Peter
> Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 2:09 AM
> To: Mawaki Chango; Internet Governance
> Subject: Re: [governance] Consensus or rough consensus?
>  
> Hi Mawaki,
>  
> > The question is, can we ever come up with basic principles that will be broadly accepted as foundation for the legitimacy of MSm in some type of settings/contexts.
>  
> I think Net Mundial made a good but imperfect attempt at this.
>  
> But equally, is there any way with MSism we can improve on the serious problems that exist with UN system?  There are countless examples within current international systems of nation state votes being bought by promises of increased foreign aid etc, and of nation state positions being determined by corporate interests. So we already have a system which is quite flawed, and  is stifled whenever it attempts to make any change that affects the status quo. My question is can we improve on it?
>  
> I don ‘t yet see how any system or systemic change is going to completely stop powerful interests dictating policy to less powerful ones. However, I am wondering whether rough consensus is going to be useful or dangerous in this context.
>  
> Ian
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> From: Mawaki Chango
> Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 9:58 AM
> To: Internet Governance ; Ian Peter
> Subject: Re: [governance] Consensus or rough consensus?
>  
> Interesting perspective, Ian. My first thought is that like anything else regarding MSm* the devil will be in how MSr* are defined, structured and organized as well as how their voice factors in the process and outcome. That is the Achilles' heel of any MSr process lies, IMO. The question is, can we ever come up with basic principles that will be broadly accepted as foundation for the legitimacy of MSm in some type of settings/contexts.
>  
> Sorry if I don't directly reply to your question.
>  
> Mawaki 
>  
> MSm = multistakeholderism
> MSr = multistakeholder
>  
> =================
> Mawaki Chango, PhD
> Founder and Owner
> DIGILEXIS
> http://www.digilexis.com 
> Skype: digilexis | Twitter: @digilexis & @pro_digilexis
>  
>  
> 
> On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 11:35 PM, Ian Peter <ian.peter at ianpeter.com> wrote:
> I’m interested to know people’s thoughts about the advisability of civil society promoting the “rough consensus” model of decision making as differing from what I will call “UN consensus”.
> 
> “UN consensus” is what we see happening in most UN decision making processes, some related international organisations, and also saw at NetMundial. This consensus model allows any one party to stand against adoption of any particular wording, even if the vast majority of parties present think otherwise. This leads to some less acceptable outcomes.
> 
> I think it is reasonable to say that “UN consensus” has been stifling in many instances and has inhibited progress in many areas.
> 
> Rough consensus could lead to different outcomes. For instance, in the NetMundial situation, it would have led to the stronger statements on surveillance, intermediate liability and net neutrality being maintained in the text, rather than being removed at the last moment due to the demands of a small number of government and business interests.
> 
> In other words, in this example at least, the mood of the meeting and the desires of the vast majority of participants would have been better reflected with a rough consensus decision making mechanism than with UN style consensus.
> 
> However, there is a danger here – minorities are not necessarily protected in rough consensus and more widespread adoption of a rough consensus decision making model could lead to suppression of some viewpoints. However, in a stakeholder model such as NetMundial needing rough consensus in all stakeholder groups would offer significant protection.
> 
>  So I am interested in any thoughts on the best model for us to promote here.
> 
>  
> 
> Ian Peter
> 
> 
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