[governance] Re: [discuss] Comcast undertakes 9 year IETF cosponsorship!?

Suresh Ramasubramanian suresh at hserus.net
Sun Mar 23 09:52:40 EDT 2014


Fully agree. Which is why I am glad that  parminders views are still a tiny 
minority not shared by civil society in general.


On 23 March 2014 7:02:44 pm Ken Stubbs <kstubbs at afilias.info> wrote:

> Alex's response here is "spot on"
>
> Ken Stubbs
>
> On 3/23/2014 3:22 AM, Alejandro Pisanty wrote:
> > Parminder,
> >
> > this statement puts in a nutshell what never ceases to amaze me: civil 
> society has gained the most among all sectors from the multistakeholder 
> component of governance, be it Internet, finance, or the environment. We 
> from civil society have broken silos and gained a global voice and 
> unparallelled global influence, often paired with influence inside our 
> countries.
> >
> > Yet the position you present reverts power to governments only - e.g. 
> through the demand of public funding and the exclusion of private funding; 
> the same governments most civil society is at odds with (admittedly in very 
> different ways and levels.)
> >
> > I continue to find it incredibly paradoxal to have civil society leading 
> the effort to braid the rope with which governments would gladly hang us.
> >
> > Another perplexing element of this discourse is calling the effective, 
> open, evolvable, broadly participatory and open multistakeholder processes 
> undemocratic and the multilateral and governmental "democratic", when maybe 
> two thirds of the world population do not consider their condition democratic.
> >
> > The remedy to the thick suspicionism of yours and colleagues - after 
> stating lack of knowledge of the organizations and matters beign spoken of 
> - is not doing away with the multistakeholder component in favor of the 
> governmental or multilateral, but optimizing the combined contributions 
> they can make. ICANN-as-a-laboratory provides a lot of learning in this 
> respect, wasted by not being studied enough. And the whole framework is 
> vital for the NTIA functional substitution problem to hand, which these 
> discussions have long drifted away from.
> >
> > Alejandro Pisanty
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Mar 23, 2014 at 12:59 AM, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net 
> <mailto:parminder at itforchange.net>> wrote:
> >
> >     This is what IETF's own RFC 3869 says
> >
> >     "The principal thesis of this document is that if commercial funding  
>  is the main source of funding for future Internet research, the    future 
> of the Internet infrastructure could be in trouble.
> >       In    addition to issues about which projects are funded, the 
> funding source can also affect the content of the research, for example,   
> towards or against the development of open standards, or taking
> >         varying degrees of care about the effect of the developed 
> protocols   on the other traffic on the Internet."
> >
> >
> >     It is important to recognise that research is not a monopoly
> >     function, but governance definitionally is. So, if commercial
> >     funding can distort Internet research, it is but obviously that it
> >     has to be an absolute no no for governance functions (standards
> >     making for something as socially important today as the Internet,
> >     in absence of any further neutral public oversight constitutes a
> >     governance function).
> >
> >     parminder
> >
> >     On Sunday 23 March 2014 07:04 AM, Stephen Farrell wrote:
> >>     -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> >>     Hash: SHA1
> >>
> >>
> >>     Michael,
> >>
> >>     On 03/23/2014 01:23 AM, michael gurstein wrote:
> >>>     I personally have no idea whether what you folks and your compadres
> >>>     do/come up with is as pure as todays snowfall up on Grouse
> >>>     Mountain--or not. But the absence of a recognition of what is
> >>>     expected of you in terms of (at least formal) accountability and
> >>>     transparency and what those expectations imply is, as I said to
> >>>     John, I think a rather significant problem.
> >>     Actually you said you didn't know how the IETF works.
> >>
> >>     And I said that the sponsorship stuff is public. And
> >>     all the mailing list traffic is public and open to all.
> >>     I really think you're in the arena of FUD in terms of
> >>     how your concern absolutely does not apply in the IETF
> >>     context.
> >>
> >>     But yet again - if you or someone is concerned go look
> >>     at the facts in the public record and then come back.
> >>     I am entirely sure that if something interesting were
> >>     found there the IETF would discuss it to death in the
> >>     same manner we do with almost everything. But I'm also
> >>     pretty confident that such an examination of the IETF
> >>     if done fairly would actually not show up such a problem.
> >>
> >>     So the situation is that you don't know how the IETF works.
> >>     And the IETF does (I claim, knowing something about it, but
> >>     anyone can verify) act transparently with accountability.
> >>     The problem it seems to me is with the first sentence in
> >>     this paragraph.
> >>
> >>     S.
> >>     -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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> >>     -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >>
> >>     _______________________________________________
> >>     discuss mailing list
> >>     discuss at 1net.org  <mailto:discuss at 1net.org>
> >>     http://1net-mail.1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> >>
> >
> >
> >     _______________________________________________
> >     discuss mailing list
> >     discuss at 1net.org <mailto:discuss at 1net.org>
> >     http://1net-mail.1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> >      Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
> > Facultad de Química UNAM
> > Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
> > +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD
> > +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475
> > Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
> > LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
> > Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, 
> http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
> > Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
> > ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
> > .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > discuss at 1net.org
> > http://1net-mail.1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
>
>
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