[bestbits] Re: [governance] Alternatives?

[Jean-Christophe Nothias]

McTim,

"MSism has delivered the current Internet." Wasn't it Godot himself? What has really produce MSism, in fact? This is a very good question.

"MSism has delivered the current Internet."This is no way a fact. Merely an opinion. 

Scientists, techies, business people did their best with different interests at stake. A gentle and productive chaos. Bigger and more powerful everyday until salesman and cops had establish their own game (after 1998, I would say).

I thought, reading WK, that it was Kodi Annan who invented the labeling MSism back in 2004 (see WK's editorial  in MIND 2011, document edited with the support of Google).
Others, more realistic think that MSism's father was Freeman (read his Strategic Management : A stakeholder approach by R. Edward Freeman, 1984, Boston, Pitman.
Pr. Schwab has claimed repeatedly that he was among the very first to introduce MSism through his forum.
Which MSism is yours? Do you a document presenting it? That is basically the question from Michael, in particular when MSism is to be granted the status of model of governance. Lots of troubling questions.

If the MSism that we see today was already in action at the very beginning of the Internet, I feel that we would have nothing in our hands to day. I am part of the people who believe that MSism is greatly responsible for having made no advance to rebalance the asymmetric role of the current tenants of Internet. By paying people with words, uneven participation, absence of legitimacy, self appointment, flaw concept (equal footing, mon oeil!) and refusing to be part of a more resilient governance - even though it would challenge the powerful Internet Barons- they have failed the users and the citizens.

We are many to be interested by some good answers about MSism and its outcome. 

Was IGF run according to some MSism model? Why is it then, that IGF  produced very little or no concrete results or progress regarding Internet governance? (what is it that was produced?)  Why is it that it is not in good shape today, until some people will decide to put some big money in it, if they believe that IGF can be of use for them. IGF+  would cover ICANN+ back, and make sure that the "soft power of MSism" and its priesthood will march on and prevail.

Thanks

JC

Nota Bene: I like your understatement about the "highly questionable actors". This type of writing is the clear expression of a no respect attitude for people in disagreement with the mainstream MSism. Forging a consensus requires much more than this type of understatement. With all due respect.




Le 6 mars 2014 à 20:38, McTim a écrit :

> Michael,
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 11:47 AM, michael gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:
> I’m still waiting
> 
> 
> If you continue to use this hectoring badgering style of discourse, you may be waiting for Godot!
> 
> 
>  
> for a rationale for replacing an admittedly flawed system (democracy) but one where there is at least a track record, very considerable theoretical development, an enormous ecology concerning Transparency and Accountability with a pig in a poke (multistakeholderism) which has no (applicable) track record, absolutely no theoretical development or underpinnings, and whose only ecology is highly questionable since it suffers from, shall we say, significant transparency and accountability “deficits”.
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously you haven't participated in any of the truly MS fora in which I have engaged.  If you had, or had bothered to do some research, you would find no lack of transparency or accountability.   I note that you are in the ARIN region, why don't you noodle around that website to see what you can find in regard to lack of transparency, etc.  I think you will be hard-pressed to find any "deficits" therein.
> 
> Never one to shy from flame-bait, the most obvious rationale is that MS processes have delivered 
> the current Internet, which most of us think is a pretty useful thing.
>  
> 
>  
> 
> The only justification that seems to be presented is impatience with existing processes by various highly questionable actors—tax dodging private sector giants, an (as yet we are not sure how deeply subverted) tech community and a bunch of corporate sponsored CS organizations. Not only this but the proposed system is such as to give an explicit veto over (“consensus based”) public policy outputs to those self-same private sector giants etc. etc.
> 
> 
> 
> The above makes zero sense.  I thought you felt that the status quo was fine for lots of folks who you dislike, now you are saying they are impatient with existing processes?
>  
> 
>  
> 
> If folks are serious about finding useful ways forward then spending time thinking about how to achieve useful reforms of existing democratic processes/developing MS processes that enhance and deepen democratic participation in the very complex and rapidly changing tech environment would seem to me to be the way to go, unless of course there are other reasons for discarding democracy which we aren’t being made aware of.
> 
> 
> 
> Some of us see MSism as deepening democracy, but you can't accept the sincerity of others positions on this.  Instead, you fire random, vague accusations of corruption.  
> 
>  
> (That the US presentation re: Internet Governance to NetMundial evokes MSism 12 times and fails to mention democracy even once should give various of those party to this discussion some cause for reflection.)
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe those who wrote it feel that MSism IS a form of democracy.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Cheers,
> 
> McTim
> "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel
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