Trivial to implement "to be forgotten" (was: Re: [governance] [IP] On Monday EPIC Freedom Awards to Allen, Amash, The Guardian, Snowden + Google right to be forgotten link

Sun Jun 1 08:51:45 EDT 2014

Ups, my last email was incomplete. So once again, here the complete version.

Dear all, dear Norbert,

> > This is not the point, Norbert:
> > 1-the ECJ cannot judge on Art. 11 (freedom of expression): this
> > competence is for the courts of the member states.
>
> Untrue. Of course the ECJ can rule on the application of any of the
> fundamental rights, in relation to the question that is asked of the
> court.
>
> Of course not, Norbert. This is convened in Art. 9 of the Data Protection
Directive of 1995

Article 9 Processing of personal data and freedom of expression

*Member States shall provide for exemptions* or derogations from the
provisions of this Chapter, Chapter IV and Chapter VI for the processing of
personal data carried out solely for journalistic purposes or the purpose
of artistic or literary expression only if they are necessary to reconcile
the right to privacy with the rules governing freedom of expression.
 Translated into understandable English: it is on the member states to
specify their own particular perception on that balance. Hence the ECJ
cannot do that.
One place, where the ECJ underlines this is for instance the Linqvist case
(an ECJ case on data protection), cf. answer to question 6 (since the text
is very long I'll only insert the link here:
http://curia.europa.eu/juris/document/document.jsf?docid=48382&doclang=en)

> > 2-the ECJ states Art.7 and 8, I quote "override in general" the public
> > interest
>
> I and Matthias Kettemann and possibly others have answered your
> misinterpretation of those words already; I will not waste my time on
> repeating that discussion.
>
> Norbert, you gave me a tautological answer without even quoting a passage
or reasoning the interpretation in accordance with the EU Charter on
Fundamental Rights. Tautologies are not an answer but a repetition.
I quoted the text of the ECJ decision (you haven't replied to that). I also
posed the incompatibilities with other rights.
I even gave you a link list of well known scholars like, among many others
Zittrain (Harvard), Peers (Essex, UK), Husovec (Max -Planck, Germany),
Linskey (London School of Economics), Rigo Wenning (legal counsel, W3C) or
Dobusch (Free University Berlin) analyzing the court's decission with
similar arguments to mine.
Happy to hear a concrete argument if you have one.
Best regards,
Lorena

Greetings,
Norbert

2014-06-01 14:26 GMT+02:00 Lorena Jaume-Palasi <lorena at collaboratory.de>:

> Dear all, dear Norbert,
>
>> > This is not the point, Norbert:
>> > 1-the ECJ cannot judge on Art. 11 (freedom of expression): this
>> > competence is for the courts of the member states.
>>
>> Untrue. Of course the ECJ can rule on the application of any of the
>> fundamental rights, in relation to the question that is asked of the
>> court.
>>
>> Of course not, Norbert. This is convened in Art. 9 of the Data Protection
> Directive of 1995
>
> Article 9 Processing of personal data and freedom of expression
>
> *Member States shall provide for exemptions* or derogations from the
> provisions of this Chapter, Chapter IV and Chapter VI for the processing of
> personal data carried out solely for journalistic purposes or the purpose
> of artistic or literary expression only if they are necessary to reconcile
> the right to privacy with the rules governing freedom of expression.
>  Translated into understandable English: it is on the member states to
> specify their own particular perception on that balance. Hence the ECJ
> cannot do that.
> One place, where the ECJ underlines this is for instance the Linqvist case
> (an ECJ case on data protection), cf. answer to question 6 (since the text
> is very long I'll only insert the link here:
> http://curia.europa.eu/juris/document/document.jsf?docid=48382&doclang=en)
>
>
>
>
>> > 2-the ECJ states Art.7 and 8, I quote "override in general" the public
>> > interest
>>
>> I and Matthias Kettemann and possibly others have answered your
>> misinterpretation of those words already; I will not waste my time on
>> repeating that discussion.
>>
>> Norbert, you gave me a tautological answer without even quoting a passage
> or reasoning the interpretation in accordance with the EU Charter on
> Fundamental Rights. Tautologies are not an answer but a repetition.
> I quoted the text of the ECJ decision (you haven't replied to that). I
> also posed the incompatibilities with other rights.
> I even gave you a link list of well known scholars like, among many others
> Zittrain (Harvard), Peers (Essex, UK), Husovec (Max -Planck, Germany),
> Linskey (London School of Economics), Rigo Wenning (legal counsel, W3C) or
> Dobusch (Free University Berlin).
> Happy to hear a concrete argument if you have one.
> Best regards,
> Lorena
>
>
>> Greetings,
>> Norbert
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Lorena Jaume-Palasí, M.A. ∙ Coordinator of the Global Internet Governance
> (GIG) Ohu
>  Internet & Gesellschaft Co:llaboratory e.V.
> www.collaboratory.de ∙ Newsletter
> <http://feedburner.google.com/fb/a/mailverify?uri=collaboratory&loc=de_DE>
>  ∙ Facebook <http://goo.gl/eJVZn> ∙ Twitter <http://goo.gl/sUFM5> ∙
> <http://www.youtube.com/user/CollaboratoryVideo?feature=CCAQwRs%3D>Youtube
> <http://www.youtube.com/user/CollaboratoryVideo?feature=CCAQwRs%3D>
>

-- 
Lorena Jaume-Palasí, M.A. ∙ Coordinator of the Global Internet Governance
(GIG) Ohu
 Internet & Gesellschaft Co:llaboratory e.V.
www.collaboratory.de ∙ Newsletter
<http://feedburner.google.com/fb/a/mailverify?uri=collaboratory&loc=de_DE> ∙
 Facebook <http://goo.gl/eJVZn> ∙ Twitter <http://goo.gl/sUFM5> ∙
<http://www.youtube.com/user/CollaboratoryVideo?feature=CCAQwRs%3D>Youtube
<http://www.youtube.com/user/CollaboratoryVideo?feature=CCAQwRs%3D>
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