[governance] FW: Data stored overseas should be accessible to US government, judge rules - RT USA

[michael gurstein]

Peter,

I'm not a lawyer so my observations are casual but my question was whether
judges/courts might make similar judgments concerning data held by companies
in their  jurisdictions... not that they would need to but these are
somewhat uncharted areas and from observation courts seem to learn/adopt
from each other in areas such as this one... with, as you suggested, quite
chaotic results...

M

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter H. Hellmonds [mailto:peter.hellmonds at hellmonds.eu] 
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2014 1:16 PM
To: michael gurstein
Cc: <governance at lists.igcaucus.org>; <members at justnetcoalition.org>
Subject: Re: [governance] FW: Data stored overseas should be accessible to
US government, judge rules - RT USA

Mike, 

It seems you assume that a non-US country would somewhat be obliged to
"follow the US courts". What do you mean by that? Do you mean they would
have a similar interpretation of their own country's extraterritorial
application? Or that they would fall into lock-step with what he US judge
orders? Maybe I am misreading or misinterpreting what you intended to say,
so please clarify. 

In general, as far as I have heard (not being a legal expert in this area),
data privacy laws in Europe are far more protective than in the US.  I would
assume that neither  Europe (maybe excepting the UK) nor Brazil, or any
other of the BRICS would care much about a US judgement that would
contravene their own country's data privacy regulations. The real legal
question and precedent would arise if a European judge would prohibit
Microsoft to hand over the data stored in Europe while the US judge would
insist on he data being handed over. That would present a real judicial and
diplomatic quagmire. 

On the other hand, all that data has probably already been siphoned off to
that huge Bluffdale data center, so you just need to ask the NSA for those
records. ;-)

On 01 Aug 2014, at 18:41, "michael gurstein" <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:

Is there any reason that other countries/jurisdictions won't follow the US
courts in this (assuming that the judgment stands)?

M

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter H. Hellmonds [mailto:peter.hellmonds at hellmonds.eu]
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2014 7:44 AM
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; michael gurstein
Cc: <members at justnetcoalition.org>
Subject: Re: [governance] FW: Data stored overseas should be accessible to
US government, judge rules - RT USA

No, not a nail in cloud services per se, but just another narrow-sighted
decision that will hurt US-based business interests and by extension US
public policy interests. It will be just another sign for European companies
that they cannot entrust their corporate data to cloud services of companies
that are US-based or otherwise subject to US jurisdiction. I'm pretty sure
you don't need RT (Russia Today) for that insight as I'm sure the Wall
Street Journal and Forbes will already be blowing in the same horn, just as
US businesses are. The big winners will be companies that are in "secure"
locations, such as Switzerland, and which have little to no connections and
business interests in the US. I read recently that one such Swiss cloud
service has seen its business double after the Snowden revelations. 

Btw, there are open source cloud servers available that you can install in a
self-hosted environment, either at home or at your favorite non-US ISP
Webspace, depending on your bandwidth and security/privacy needs. ;-)

On 01 Aug 2014, at 16:16, "michael gurstein" <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:

http://rt.com/usa/177104-microsoft-preska-ireland-server/

Another nail in the coffin for "the cloud" and more...?

M


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