[governance] FW: Data stored overseas should be accessible to US government, judge rules — RT USA

Sat Aug 2 08:44:18 EDT 2014

Sure, Peter, I will try and explain where I see the 'same logic', 
although I thought it was obvious.

What we see in the present case is that, in order to exercise its legal 
will, no doubt as enforcing US law and the such, a US court thinks that 
data stored in Ireland under the control of a US corporation is fair 
game to forcibly access. It simply goes by the fact of control, and 
disregards territorial limits of jurisdiction, It also disregards the 
principle of comity in international legal relationships.

/It being so, /what chance does one give that a US court will not 
directly interfere with the root zone file - for instance, to seize the 
gtld of a foreign company which it assesses as violating US intellectual 
property law - when the root zone actually lies both in the territory of 
the US and under the control of a US entity.

Do you think that a US court is unlikely to do any such thing in the 
future? If so, on what basis?

It is obvious that US courts will do whatever it takes to enforce US 
law, and therefore the root zone of the Internet lying in control of an 
US entity is simply not safe from interference from US courts.

parminder

On Saturday 02 August 2014 04:33 PM, Peter H. Hellmonds wrote:
> Hi Parminder,
>
> Not sure I can follow your logic yet. I was talking about data privacy, i.e. about the privacy of the content of a person's data and communications, as it referred to a concrete court case. In that case, a US judge is ordering a US company (Microsoft in this case) to hand over data stored in a data center in Europe.
>
> My argument was (and is) that this judge's order infringes upon European data privacy laws and directives. I was also pointing out that the NSA affair has left a certain sour taste in the mouths of many business executives who care about the privacy of their business secrets.
>
> Again, I was referring to the contents of data stored in the cloud and I was alluding to that when I argued that businesses would rather seek non-US based  cloud providers if they want the content of their data kept out of the hands of third parties or at least subject to stricter privacy rules.
>
> Now, please explain how IANA and the DNS root management would follow "the same logic". Is there private data stored in the DNS root? Does IANA provide access to law enforcement about data stored in its cloud?
>
> I guess you are referring to the general feeling of mistrust in the US government when it comes to the management of the DNS root, a feeling we have been discussing since pre-WSIS times. So, what is new? Does the current cloud data content court case shed any fresh light on that decades old struggle? Please enlighten me where you see "the same logic".
>
> Peter H. Hellmonds
> <peter.hellmonds at hellmonds.eu>
> +49 (160) 360-2852
>
> On 02.08.2014, at 05:38, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net> wrote:
>
>
>> On Friday 01 August 2014 08:14 PM, Peter H. Hellmonds wrote:
>> No, not a nail in cloud services per se, but just another narrow-sighted decision that will hurt US-based business interests and by extension US public policy interests. It will be just another sign for European companies that they cannot entrust their corporate data to cloud services of companies that are US-based or otherwise subject to US jurisdiction.
> By the very same logic, what about entrusting Internet's DNS root to US jurisdiction? Isnt there is a similar problem/ issue with that. I ask because it is the IANA discussion which is the current IG context, and is something people can really do something about. If we really think and speak thus, we should out our political actions where our mouth is.
>
> Friends, please let not be mislead by the nicely orchestrated IANA transition game.  Internet's root cannot stay under US jurisdiction. Especially with hundreds of new gltd coming up, this is just leaving a can of worms unattended. And we as actors who are present when IANA transition is taking place, apparently with the consent of the global community, will be political responsible as the worms begin to crawl out and pose innumerable social and political problems...
>
> We must make a stand for incorporation of ICANN under international law and thereby be given host country immunities for it. This is the single biggest IANA issue, not all those diversionary technical and implementation issues that are continually offered as the real IANA issue - which I consider as deliberately misleading.
>
> parminder
>
>
>
>
>> I'm pretty sure you don't need RT (Russia Today) for that insight as I'm sure the Wall Street Journal and Forbes will already be blowing in the same horn, just as US businesses are. The big winners will be companies that are in "secure" locations, such as Switzerland, and which have little to no connections and business interests in the US. I read recently that one such Swiss cloud service has seen its business double after the Snowden revelations.
>>
>> Btw, there are open source cloud servers available that you can install in a self-hosted environment, either at home or at your favorite non-US ISP Webspace, depending on your bandwidth and security/privacy needs. ;-)
>>
>> On 01 Aug 2014, at 16:16, "michael gurstein" <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> http://rt.com/usa/177104-microsoft-preska-ireland-server/
>>
>> Another nail in the coffin for "the cloud" and more...?
>>
>> M
>>
>>
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