[governance] Re: [bestbits] Surveillance paragraph of netmundial document

Thu Apr 17 05:35:39 EDT 2014

On Thursday 17 April 2014 02:52 PM, Lorena Jaume-Palasí wrote:
>
> Am 17.04.2014 10:59, schrieb parminder:
>>
>> On Thursday 17 April 2014 08:24 AM, Stephanie Perrin wrote:
>>> I am indebted to my colleague Carlton Samuels for pointing out the 
>>> recent (April 10) opinion of the article 29 working party.  Perhaps 
>>> it would be useful to cite it.
>>> Opinion 04/2014 on "Surveillance of electronic communications for 
>>> intelligence and national security purposes(336 kB) 
>>> <http://ec.europa.eu/justice/data-protection/article-29/documentation/opinion-recommendation/files/2014/wp215_en.pdf> 
>>> Choose translations of the previous link" - WP 215
>>
>>
>> The EU Working party seeks: " An international agreement providing 
>> adequate protection against indiscriminate surveillance" and 
>> "development of a global instrument providing for enforceable, high 
>> level privacy and data protection principles as agreed upon by the 
>> International Conference of Data Protection and Privacy Commissioners 
>> in their Madrid Declaration"
>>
> Well not exactly, since the mass surveillance problem is not addressed 
> in data protection. Laws like FISAA and other laws regulating secret 
> services are not part of the data protection corpora. So it is the 
> laws regulating national security, which are always explicitly 
> excluded in data protection.
> Why not introducing on the first place the notion of "legitimate aim" 
> on surveillance as HRW & EFF are trying to do? 
> (http://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/related_material/HRW%20submission%20on%20privacy%20US%20CCPR%20review%20final.pdf)
> And on the second place, why not being bold and trying to encourage 
> the creation of minimal international standards on cyber-espionage?

Yes, Lorena

You are only further stressing the point I am making - which was 
basically not to agree to and stop at what the EU working party is doing 
but direct our efforts towards real serious work of developing 
international principles and standards, and enforceable agreements, and 
not the trite stuff, that the Brazil meeting, after so much promise that 
President Rousseff generated, seems to be now headed towards..

parminder

> Kind regards
> Lorena
>> That is what we should be talking about, not the vacuous statements 
>> of the public NetMundial outcome draft, which in fact are not 
>> innocent because they seek a multistakeholder public policy decision 
>> making model which will simply make such kinds of agreements 
>> impossible...
>>
>> parminder
>>
>>>
>>> http://ec.europa.eu/justice/data-protection/article-29/documentation/opinion-recommendation/index_en.htm#h2-1 
>>>
>>> Stephanie Perrin
>>> On 2014-04-16, at 10:25 PM, Ian Peter wrote:
>>>
>>>> I don’t know Parminder (and I wasnt aware of that). What I would 
>>>> like to see is sufficient comments and some suggestions that might 
>>>> provoke a discussion during the meeting rather than the words 
>>>> quietly being accepted. I suggested elsewhere perhaps we could call 
>>>> for an immediate cessation of all surveillance that did not accord 
>>>> with human rights provisions and privacy norms. I would just like 
>>>> to see which governments put up their hand to oppose an inclusion 
>>>> along those lines.
>>>> Ian Peter
>>>> *From:* parminder <mailto:parminder at itforchange.net>
>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 17, 2014 11:59 AM
>>>> *To:* bestbits at lists.bestbits.net 
>>>> <mailto:bestbits at lists.bestbits.net> ; 
>>>> governance at lists.igcaucus.org <mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [bestbits] Surveillance paragraph of netmundial document
>>>> On Thursday 17 April 2014 04:08 AM, Ian Peter wrote:
>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>> To me one of the weakest sections of the document is the paragraph 
>>>>> dealing with surveillance issues (para 35 of the Roadmap) which 
>>>>> reads “Internet surveillance – Mass and arbitrary surveillance 
>>>>> undermines trust in the Internet and trust in the Internet 
>>>>> governance ecosystem. Surveillance of communications, their 
>>>>> interception, and the collection of personal data, including mass 
>>>>> surveillance, interception and collection should be conducted in 
>>>>> accordance with states’ obligations under international human 
>>>>> rights law. More dialogue is needed on this topic at the 
>>>>> international level using forums like IGF and the Human Rights 
>>>>> Council aiming to develop a common understanding on all the 
>>>>> related aspects”.
>>>>> This fairly weak language and action line (more dialogue) is not 
>>>>> surprising given the governmental input (including US Government) 
>>>>> into the drafting. So far the only comment on this is from me, 
>>>>> where I suggest  reference to the necessaryandproportionate.org 
>>>>> principles.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You of course know that reference to 'necessary and proportionate' 
>>>> was there in the original draft and it got removed... What are the 
>>>> chances then it will be reinstated at your request?
>>>>
>>>> parminder
>>>>
>>>>> I think it would be useful if others commented as individuals. 
>>>>> Perhaps what we need is some better wording (which perhaps 
>>>>> governments would be embarrassed not to include), and which would 
>>>>> strengthen the response here. In any case, some wording and 
>>>>> indication of level of concern to ensure that this is discussed on 
>>>>> the floor of the meeting rather than simply passed by as an 
>>>>> adequate wording would be useful!
>>>>> Ian Peter
>>>>> The site for entering responses is 
>>>>> http://document.netmundial.br/2-roadmap-for-the-future-evolution-of-the-internet-governance/
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
>

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