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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Thursday 17 April 2014 02:52 PM,
      Lorena Jaume-Palasí wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote cite="mid:534F9D39.4080906@collaboratory.de" type="cite">
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      <br>
      <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 17.04.2014 10:59, schrieb
        parminder:<br>
      </div>
      <blockquote cite="mid:534F97F6.80403@itforchange.net" type="cite">
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        <br>
        <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Thursday 17 April 2014 08:24 AM,
          Stephanie Perrin wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote
          cite="mid:554BE7A5-5E4D-4D19-A298-6E5A6ED64966@mail.utoronto.ca"
          type="cite">
          <div>I am indebted to my colleague Carlton Samuels for
            pointing out the recent (April 10) opinion of the article 29
            working party.  Perhaps it would be useful to cite it. </div>
          <div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://ec.europa.eu/justice/data-protection/article-29/documentation/opinion-recommendation/files/2014/wp215_en.pdf"
              target="_blank" class="link-ico"><span>Opinion 04/2014 on
                "Surveillance of electronic communications for
                intelligence and national security purposes</span><span
                class="link-size">(336 kB)</span></a> <a
              moz-do-not-send="true" class="ws-ico" href=""
              title="Choose translations of the previous link"><img
                moz-do-not-send="true" alt="Choose translations of the
                previous link"
                src="http://ec.europa.eu/wel/images/languages/ws.gif"
                height="13" width="16"></a>" - WP 215</div>
        </blockquote>
        <br>
        <br>
        The EU Working party seeks: " An international agreement
        providing adequate protection against indiscriminate
        surveillance" and "development of a global instrument providing
        for enforceable, high level privacy and data protection
        principles as agreed upon by the International Conference of
        Data Protection and Privacy Commissioners in their Madrid
        Declaration"<br>
        <br>
      </blockquote>
      Well not exactly, since the mass surveillance problem is not
      addressed in data protection. Laws like FISAA and other laws
      regulating secret services are not part of the data protection
      corpora. So it is the laws regulating national security, which are
      always explicitly excluded in data protection. <br>
      Why not introducing on the first place the notion of "legitimate
      aim" on surveillance as HRW & EFF are trying to do?
      (<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/related_material/HRW%20submission%20on%20privacy%20US%20CCPR%20review%20final.pdf">http://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/related_material/HRW%20submission%20on%20privacy%20US%20CCPR%20review%20final.pdf</a>)<br>
      And on the second place, why not being bold and trying to
      encourage the creation of minimal international standards on
      cyber-espionage?<br>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    Yes, Lorena<br>
    <br>
    You are only further stressing the point I am making - which was
    basically not to agree to and stop at what the EU working party is
    doing but direct our efforts towards real serious work of developing
    international principles and standards, and enforceable agreements,
    and not the trite stuff, that the Brazil meeting, after so much
    promise that President Rousseff generated, seems to be now headed
    towards..<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    parminder <br>
    <br>
    <blockquote cite="mid:534F9D39.4080906@collaboratory.de" type="cite">
      Kind regards<br>
      Lorena<br>
      <blockquote cite="mid:534F97F6.80403@itforchange.net" type="cite">
        That is what we should be talking about, not the vacuous
        statements of the public NetMundial outcome draft, which in fact
        are not innocent because they seek a multistakeholder public
        policy decision making model which will simply make such kinds
        of agreements impossible...<br>
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        parminder <br>
        <br>
        <blockquote
          cite="mid:554BE7A5-5E4D-4D19-A298-6E5A6ED64966@mail.utoronto.ca"
          type="cite">
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://ec.europa.eu/justice/data-protection/article-29/documentation/opinion-recommendation/index_en.htm#h2-1">http://ec.europa.eu/justice/data-protection/article-29/documentation/opinion-recommendation/index_en.htm#h2-1</a>
          <div>Stephanie Perrin<br>
            <div>
              <div>On 2014-04-16, at 10:25 PM, Ian Peter wrote:</div>
              <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
              <blockquote type="cite">
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                      <div>I don’t know Parminder (and I wasnt aware of
                        that). What I would like to see is sufficient
                        comments and some suggestions that might provoke
                        a discussion during the meeting rather than the
                        words quietly being accepted. I suggested
                        elsewhere perhaps we could call for an immediate
                        cessation of all surveillance that did not
                        accord with human rights provisions and privacy
                        norms. I would just like to see which
                        governments put up their hand to oppose an
                        inclusion along those lines.</div>
                      <div> </div>
                      <div>Ian Peter</div>
                      <div style="FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-FAMILY:
                        'Calibri'; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000;
                        FONT-STYLE: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none;
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                        <div style="FONT: 10pt tahoma">
                          <div> </div>
                          <div style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
                            <div style="font-color: black"><b>From:</b>
                              <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                title="parminder@itforchange.net"
                                href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net">parminder</a>
                            </div>
                            <div><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 17, 2014
                              11:59 AM</div>
                            <div><b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                title="bestbits@lists.bestbits.net"
                                href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a>
                              ; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                title="governance@lists.igcaucus.org"
                                href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>
                            </div>
                            <div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [bestbits]
                              Surveillance paragraph of netmundial
                              document</div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                        <div> </div>
                      </div>
                      <div style="FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-FAMILY:
                        'Calibri'; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000;
                        FONT-STYLE: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none;
                        DISPLAY: inline">
                        <div> </div>
                        <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Thursday 17
                          April 2014 04:08 AM, Ian Peter wrote:<br>
                        </div>
                        <blockquote
                          cite="mid:ABBB33C3166A4A4F93414DEA93F05027@Toshiba"
                          type="cite">
                          <div dir="ltr">
                            <div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY:
                              'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000">
                              <div style="WORD-WRAP: break-word">Hi
                                everyone,</div>
                              <div style="WORD-WRAP: break-word"> </div>
                              <div style="WORD-WRAP: break-word">To me
                                one of the weakest sections of the
                                document is the paragraph dealing with
                                surveillance issues (para 35 of the
                                Roadmap) which reads “<span
                                  style="FONT-FAMILY: ; WHITE-SPACE:
                                  normal; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none;
                                  WORD-SPACING: 0px; FLOAT: none; COLOR:
                                  ; DISPLAY: inline !important;
                                  LETTER-SPACING: normal; LINE-HEIGHT:
                                  25px; TEXT-INDENT: 0px;
                                  -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"><font
                                    face="Arial"><font color="#ca0000"><span
                                        class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Internet


                                      surveillance – Mass and arbitrary
                                      surveillance undermines trust in
                                      the Internet and trust in the
                                      Internet governance ecosystem.
                                      Surveillance of communications,
                                      their interception, and the
                                      collection of personal data,
                                      including mass surveillance,
                                      interception and collection should
                                      be conducted in accordance with
                                      states’ obligations under
                                      international human rights law.
                                      More dialogue is needed on this
                                      topic at the international level
                                      using forums like IGF and the
                                      Human Rights Council aiming to
                                      develop a common understanding on
                                      all the related aspects”.</font></font></span></div>
                              <div style="WORD-WRAP: break-word"><span
                                  style="FONT-FAMILY: ; WHITE-SPACE:
                                  normal; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none;
                                  WORD-SPACING: 0px; FLOAT: none; COLOR:
                                  ; DISPLAY: inline !important;
                                  LETTER-SPACING: normal; LINE-HEIGHT:
                                  25px; TEXT-INDENT: 0px;
                                  -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"></span> </div>
                              <div style="WORD-WRAP: break-word">This
                                fairly weak language and action line
                                (more dialogue) is not surprising given
                                the governmental input (including US
                                Government) into the drafting. So far
                                the only comment on this is from me,
                                where I suggest  reference to the
                                necessaryandproportionate.org
                                principles. </div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </blockquote>
                        <br>
                        <br>
                        You of course know that reference to 'necessary
                        and proportionate' was there in the original
                        draft and it got removed... What are the chances
                        then it will be reinstated at your request?<br>
                        <br>
                        parminder<br>
                        <br>
                        <blockquote
                          cite="mid:ABBB33C3166A4A4F93414DEA93F05027@Toshiba"
                          type="cite">
                          <div dir="ltr">
                            <div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY:
                              'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000">
                              <div style="WORD-WRAP: break-word"> </div>
                              <div style="WORD-WRAP: break-word">I think
                                it would be useful if others commented
                                as individuals. Perhaps what we need is
                                some better wording (which perhaps
                                governments would be embarrassed not to
                                include), and which would strengthen the
                                response here. In any case, some wording
                                and indication of level of concern to
                                ensure that this is discussed on the
                                floor of the meeting rather than simply
                                passed by as an adequate wording would
                                be useful!</div>
                              <div style="WORD-WRAP: break-word"> </div>
                              <div style="WORD-WRAP: break-word"> </div>
                              <div style="WORD-WRAP: break-word">Ian
                                Peter</div>
                              <div style="WORD-WRAP: break-word"> </div>
                              <div style="WORD-WRAP: break-word">The
                                site for entering responses is <a
title="http://document.netmundial.br/2-roadmap-for-the-future-evolution-of-the-internet-governance/"
href="http://document.netmundial.br/2-roadmap-for-the-future-evolution-of-the-internet-governance/"
                                  moz-do-not-send="true">http://document.netmundial.br/2-roadmap-for-the-future-evolution-of-the-internet-governance/</a></div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </blockquote>
                        <br>
                        <div> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder">
                        </div>
                        <hr>
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