[governance] DMP} Re: [Final draft for final comments] Letter to Pres. Rousseff
Carolina Rossini
carolina.rossini at gmail.com
Thu Sep 26 09:47:46 EDT 2013
some here - http://direitorio.fgv.br/civilrightsframeworkforinternet
On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 9:37 AM, Avri Doria <avri at acm.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am sure my view is not correct.
>
> As I said I support you in supporting the content of Marco Civil.
>
> I am not willing to support the notion that the process you went though is
> one for the world to follow. Maybe if I understood the process beter, I
> would support it. But for now I support the content as long as you are
> happy with it but will not support the practice as a world example - at
> least without knowing a whole lot more. At the moment it looks like a less
> then adequate example for the world to follow - though one certainly worthy
> of study and better understanding.
>
> And all I have to go on, other than my own reading is what you all have
> been arguing for the last years or more.
>
> avri
>
>
>
> On 26 Sep 2013, at 08:37, Carolina wrote:
>
> > Hi Avri,
> > I think your conclusion about what we (Brazilians) say/think is not
> totally correct. The issue around Marco Civil is much more complex. It does
> have really good text and principles. There are some contentious issues,
> including ISP liability, NN and data retention and mirroring, but still is
> a exemplary bill and process.
> > I would be happy to chat with you by Skype and go over all such issues
> and map how the actors are around these are in Brazil.
> > Best,
> > Carolina
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > On Sep 26, 2013, at 8:30 AM, Avri Doria <avri at acm.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> Re[sectifully disagree.
> >>
> >> We went through months of messages in various list of how the process
> for the Marco Civil had left the Civil Society and the CGI behind. Until
> this letter, everything I was hearing from Brazilians was how bad Marco
> Civil was. Now we have a situation where several countries have joined the
> list of countries gone rouge and civil society is willing to go back to
> government run models.
> >>
> >> I disagree with the letter as currently changed, though I had supported
> it before the change.
> >>
> >> avri
> >>
> >> On 26 Sep 2013, at 08:20, Norbert Bollow wrote:
> >>
> >>> [with IGC coordinator hat on]
> >>>
> >>> If I'm reading this right, this discussion seems to have arrived at
> >>> what may be a consensus text. Congratulations!
> >>>
> >>> I'd like to request that as soon as the draft text is believed to
> >>> have stabilized, one of the drafters post a complete copy of the text,
> >>> as the basis for a formal IGC consensus call.
> >>>
> >>> Greetings,
> >>> Norbert
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> parminder at itforchange.net wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I agree...
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks for an excellent and quick, Joana.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Parminder, we reached our deadline of 9am in BRA. Lets proceed with
> >>>>> the endorsements, ok?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Marco civil is on item 2. We could add something like this yellow
> >>>>> part about the process:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 2. Stress the importance of the timely adoption of the Brazilian
> >>>>> Draft Bill
> >>>>> of Internet Rights (Marco Civil da Internet) in a way that upholds
> >>>>> these principles and endorses the innovative and democratic process
> >>>>> in which it was conceived.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 1:35 PM, parminder
> >>>>> <parminder at itforchange.net>wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Joana
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I am fine if I am explained why marco process cannot be mentioned
> >>>>>> as bring
> >>>>>> a part of Brazilian IG scene that should be promoted... I
> >>>>>> understand that
> >>>>>> this process is also deliberative while being consensus seeking.
> >>>>>> Marco Civil process is a big and a happy part of the Brazilian IG
> >>>>>> scene, why should bwe not mention it.
> >>>>>> parminder
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Thursday 26 September 2013 04:57 PM, Joana Varon wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Dear Parminder,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Considering the support from the others, this is as far as we
> >>>>>> could go:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 4. Reinforce our support for the Brazilian multistakeholder model
> >>>>>> for Internet governance lead by CGI.br.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Im happy you see CGI model as the whole model to be extended to the
> >>>>>> world.
> >>>>>> And we can chat a lot about it. Indeed, its a very good starting
> >>>>>> point. But
> >>>>>> it still have its problems, as every innovative way of deal with
> >>>>>> things. In
> >>>>>> fact, this letter has also the goal to straighten CGI political
> >>>>>> power as endorsing it as a legitim intent. So, for the purpose if
> >>>>>> this and for wider consensus lets stay at this point, ok? The part
> >>>>>> of marco civil is already mentioned in previous paragraphs.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We shall publish it now at BB for collecting signatures as time is
> >>>>>> passing
> >>>>>> by. Will come up with a link asap. Hope u could help with the
> >>>>>> outreach.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks once again for all the inputs, collaboration and insights.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Best.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Joana
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Sep 26, 2013 1:00 PM, "Suresh Ramasubramanian"
> >>>>>> <suresh at hserus.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The text is fine as it is.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Do any other members of the caucus feel strongly about changing
> >>>>>>> point 4?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> --srs (htc one x)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 26 September 2013 4:00:48 PM Joana Varon wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Ops, just saw Parminder's emails with direct suggestions. So
> >>>>>>> could we go
> >>>>>>> for:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> 4. Reinforce our support for the Brazilian multistakeholder model
> >>>>>>> for Internet governance lead by CGI.br.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 12:22 PM, Joana Varon
> >>>>>>> <joana at varonferraz.com>wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Hi Louis and Parminder,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Until now you were the only ones that didnt agree fully with the
> >>>>>>>> texto,
> >>>>>>>> due to paragraph 4. From what I've got:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> - Parminder has a stronger take that THE Brazilian model should
> >>>>>>>> be extended to the world.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> - Louis said that we should remove that mention on the text.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Before we start drafting the text, the issue about of
> >>>>>>>> multilateral vs multistakeholderism was raised and we came to a
> >>>>>>>> conclusion that though its
> >>>>>>>> not the time to criticize this specific point of Dilma's speech,
> >>>>>>>> we should
> >>>>>>>> reinforce our support for developing models for a
> >>>>>>>> multistakeholder approach
> >>>>>>>> on IG, also having CGI experiences as a inspiration.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Having in mind that for a broader endorsement we need to reach
> >>>>>>>> this middle ground, would you be fine with the actual version or
> >>>>>>>> want to submit
> >>>>>>>> changes in the language that don't affect this (middle ground)
> >>>>>>>> meaning?
> >>>>>>>> Thanks a lot for the understanding.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> best
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> joana
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 12:04 PM, Louis Pouzin (well)
> >>>>>>>> <pouzin at well.com>wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> IMHO it would be better without parag 4.
> >>>>>>>>> Cheers, Louis
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> btw, for those not living there, local brazilian time is UTC-3
> >>>>>>>>> - - -
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On 26 September 2013 7:14:17 AM Joana Varon wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Dear all,
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Please, find a reduced version below. We are closing the pad
> >>>>>>>>>> now to avoid more crazy joined editing processes. Thanks for
> >>>>>>>>>> all the contributions.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Let's receive final comments about very punctual changes or
> >>>>>>>>>> major disagreements and gaps until tomorrow (Thursday) 9:00 am
> >>>>>>>>>> (Brazilian time).
> >>>>>>>>>> Then collect endorsements through out the day.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> *Deadline for signatures will be this Thursday night, let's say
> >>>>>>>>>> 22:00, also Brazilian time*. So Carlos can deliver it in hand
> >>>>>>>>>> to President Dilma. *
> >>>>>>>>>> *
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> thanks once again,
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> joana
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> *Letter from** International C**ivil Society** Organizations**
> >>>>>>>>>> **to President Dilma Rousseff in support of her **statement at
> >>>>>>>>>> **the 68th Session of the **UNGA *
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Your Excellency,
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> We, the undersigned organizations and individuals from around
> >>>>>>>>>> the world, committed to the development of the Internet and
> >>>>>>>>>> its use for advancing social and economic justice, would like
> >>>>>>>>>> to express our strong support for the statement delivered this
> >>>>>>>>>> week by your Excellency
> >>>>>>>>>> at the 68th Session of the United Nations General Assembly. We
> >>>>>>>>>> commend you for taking a leading role on these issues and
> >>>>>>>>>> would like to:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> 1. Fully endorse the five principles enunciated on the
> >>>>>>>>>> occasion, in clear accordance with the Brazilian Internet
> >>>>>>>>>> Steering Committee*'*s* *Principles
> >>>>>>>>>> for the Governance and Use of the Internet.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> 2. Stress the importance of the timely adoption of the
> >>>>>>>>>> Brazilian Draft Bill of Internet Rights (Marco Civil da
> >>>>>>>>>> Internet) in a way that
> >>>>>>>>>> upholds these principles.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> 3. Commend the courage of Brazil in expressing disapproval and
> >>>>>>>>>> demanding explanations from the USA about the procedures of
> >>>>>>>>>> illegal interception of information and data, framing it as a
> >>>>>>>>>> grave violation of
> >>>>>>>>>> human rights and of civil liberties
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> 4.* *Reinforce our support for an extension into broader
> >>>>>>>>>> spheres of Internet Governance of the experiences from the
> >>>>>>>>>> Brazilian multistakeholder model of Internet governance, led
> >>>>>>>>>> by CGI.br, which comprises representatives from Government,
> >>>>>>>>>> Scientific and TechnologyCommunity,
> >>>>>>>>>> private sector and Civil Society on an equal footing.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> We express our deep appreciation for your serious commitment
> >>>>>>>>>> to social justice and development, of which an open, stable,
> >>>>>>>>>> and reliable
> >>>>>>>>>> Internet is a fundamental pillar.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Signatories:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Joana Varon Ferraz
> >>>>>>>> @joana_varon
> >>>>>>>> PGP 0x016B8E73
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Joana Varon Ferraz
> >>>>>>> @joana_varon
> >>>>>>> PGP 0x016B8E73
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ____________________________________________________________
> >>>>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> --
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Joana Varon Ferraz
> >>>>> @joana_varon
> >>>>> PGP 0x016B8E73
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ____________________________________________________________
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> >>
> >>
> >> ____________________________________________________________
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> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
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>
>
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>
--
*Carolina Rossini*
*Project Director, Latin America Resource Center*
Open Technology Institute
*New America Foundation*
//
http://carolinarossini.net/
+ 1 6176979389
*carolina.rossini at gmail.com*
skype: carolrossini
@carolinarossini
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