AW: [governance] New Security Season for the world. Freedom can wait.
Suresh Ramasubramanian
suresh at hserus.net
Sun Oct 13 05:15:40 EDT 2013
He speaks for his ministry which is concerned with IT and telecom
The cirp proposal was probably floated by bureaucracy and got dumped after
the minister refused to touch it
Lawful intercept and monitoring in india is by other agencies under other
ministries or under the prime minister / national security advisor so quite
possibly outside minister sibal's remit.
--srs (htc one x)
On 13 October 2013 2:17:26 PM "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang"
<wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de> wrote:
> Hi
> My understanding is that there are obviously two conferences in India (at
> the same day): One called CyFy (organised by the Observe Research
> Foundation) with high representation from governments (including US and
> Germany) and the Knowledge Summit (which is also of great interest).
> I was investigating the background of the CyFy. US is presented by Chris
> Painter from the DoS. Germany by the new Commissioner for International
> Cyberpolicy Dirk Brengelmann. Key Speaker here is Minister Sibal, who was
> in Baku and distanced himself very strongly from the CIRP proposal by
> making clear that India is for a free and open Internet, but has its own
> interest and can not accept a one sided political or economic dominance by
> one group of corproations or one government, a position which was shared by
> a lot of CS folks in the breakfest session in Baku.
> Does he speak for India as a whole? That is why I asked Parminder to help
> us to understand better the local situation in India. India is a key player
> and will have an important voice in the "New Internet Season Process".
> What I have observed in the last years is that individual governments speak
> more and more with different voices. One ministry says this, another one
> says something else, sometimes very conflicting with the position of the
> other ministry. This is confusing for non-governmental stakeholders who
> refer to "the governments of x or y has said this or that".
> In Germany, the Ministry of Justice has heavily critisized PRISM and calls
> for strong data protection, the Ministry of the Interior is rather silent
> and says that there is no problem. The Ministry of Economics represents
> Germany in the GAC and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs has just reently
> nominated Mr. Brengelmann as the new leader to represent Germany in
> intergovernmental negotiations in this field. And more ministeries are
> involved (consumer protection, defence, economic development). And for the
> Chancellor, Internet Governance is sitll "unchartered territory" (which is
> true in a certain sense for many governments).
> However to charter this territory, it needs more than a "wait and see"
> approach. New ideas, which go beyond the classical "send it back to a
> governmental body", are needed. There is a need for National
> Multistakeholder IG Platforms (as in Brazil) and intergovernmental Internet
> negotiations has to be embedded into the aleready existing multistakeholder
> environment (called the IG Eco-System).
>
> I observe that this internal governmental differention, reflecting
> different interests of special governmental groups, since years. You can
> see this in particular in ICANN meetings where you ask yourself sometimes
> whether the individual GAC person speaks for the government as a whole or
> just for one ministry or pressure group in the government (law enforcement
> as an example by ignoring data commissioners).
>
> Last week in Washington I had a similar impression from the USG.It is
> uncelar whether there is "one US Internet policy". Is it done by the DOC?
> The DoS (and here is it Chris Painter or Sepulveda)? Or is it done by DHS
> and DoJ and General Alexander and Mr. Clapper? Has the White House a strong
> coordinator or do they play with different cards? And what congress os
> doing? Can they bring everything to a halt? US governments pays money to
> one group to make TOR safe and they pay money to another group to crack
> TOR? How far this "left hand does not know what the right hand is doing" is
> going?
> Similar things you can see in Brazil, in European States, but also in
> Russia and even in China. The so-called "London Process" which has arrived
> now in Seoul (just the weekend before Bali) with no clue where to go from
> there, is another example.
> I raise this issue because on Day 1 in Bali we have the Plenary on the role
> of governments in the MS Governance Model.
> As I can see we have here two problems: One is the missing consensus AMONG
> governments of the 193 UN member states and two is the missing consensus
> WITHIN single governments. CS should ask questions in Bali about the
> internal mechanisms within governments and who speaks on behalf of "one
> government" or "the governments".
> Insofar the ICANN/Roussoff initiative is of strategic importance and a step
> forward. There is a need that a government as a stakeholder needs to speak
> with one voice and this can be done only by the highest representative. A
> consequence could be to design any nee mechanism along those lines. A
> possible outcome from the proposed "Summit Meeting" next year in Brazil
> would be to work towards the launch of an "eG20". But such a body would
> have to include not only the 20 presidents of the G 20 nations but at least
> a similar highest level representation of the other stakeholder groups
> (probably 10 seats each for CS, PS and TC). The working methods of such a
> (eG20) could be similar to the UNCSTD WGs on IGF Improvement and Enhanced
> ooperation where every member had the same rights and was "equal" in making
> proposals, discussing language and adopting a final text.
> Such a multistakeholder IG body of 50 leaders needs a framework of
> guidelines and principles. Insofar the forthcoming sessions in Bali on
> principles will be of crucial importance. This is an opportunity to go
> beyond the re-cycling of the old positions and to come with innovative
> ideas how to use the "window of opportunity" of the "New Internet Season".
> Whatever will happen next year in Brazil (April will be in conflict with
> the High Level WSIS 10+), guidance should come from the IGF and CS has to
> bring all its brains, energy and constructive spirit to Indonesia to play a
> similar role to what CS did in the Geneva phase of WSIS in 2003.
> Wolfgang
>
> ________________________________
>
> Von: Suresh Ramasubramanian [mailto:suresh at hserus.net]
> Gesendet: So 13.10.2013 01:11
> An: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Louis Pouzin (well)
> Cc: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Kleinwächter, Wolfgang;
> parminder at itforchange.net
> Betreff: Re: [governance] New Security Season for the world. Freedom can wait.
>
>
> Not very many of the actual players. Expensive registration fees. This is a
> talk shop and networking event more than anything else and I don't expect
> substantial policy outcomes.
>
> --srs (iPad)
>
> On 13-Oct-2013, at 0:04, "Louis Pouzin (well)" <pouzin at well.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> It's crystal clear that this Delhi Summit is all about security. While the
> meeting won't change the world overnight, the topic will be long lasting,
> and shall put State and Defense in the core of investment and decision
> making within national blueprints for a ruggedized society. Something
> similar to post-Hiroshima redesign of political strategies.
>
>
> Thanks USA for opening the Pandora's box.
>
>
> Louis
> - - -
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 12, 2013 at 6:27 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian
> <suresh at hserus.net> wrote:
>
>
> http://www.assocham.org/docs/11th-Konwledge-Summit-CyberSecurityBrochure_13.pdf
>
> CIS India and ISOC are listed as supporting partners. I also see the
> council of Europe and ITU APT involved.
> Seems to be organized mostly by a national chamber of commerce along with
> various Indian ministries.
>
> --srs (iPad)
>
> On 12-Oct-2013, at 21:05, "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang"
> <wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi Parminder,
>
> do you have any information about the Cyberconference in New Dehli,
> October 14 - 15 under the leadership of Indian Minister Sibal? Is this
> Indians contribution to the "new Season"? Are you or IT for Change
> involved? There is a session on Multistakeholderism on Day 2 which speaks
> about the need to strengthen civil society impact. As you remember, we
> always argued that good Internet governance starts at home. Do you have
> something like the Brazilians in India (Marco Civil/cgi.br <http://cgi.br/> ?).
>
> Can you give us and this list some information? This would be certainly
> useful also to prepare the various principles sessions in Bali.
>
> Thanks.
>
> wolfgang
>
>
>
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