[governance] DMP} Statement on Process and Objectives for the Global Multistakeholder Meeting on the Future of Internet Governance
Rafik Dammak
rafik.dammak at gmail.com
Sat Nov 30 00:40:27 EST 2013
>
> No that is not the objective... The objective is to have means of
> democratic oversight over some key resources that are a global commons...
>
> I dont think there is disagreement about the oversight BUT I don't see how
it will be democratic , at least I didn't see any rationale or logical
explanation
> I am not arguing that should be an US org under US laws. how could you
> conclude that?
>
>
> Because that is what Milton is arguing, and that is what it precisely and
> fully means if ICANN is not to be converted from a US organisation to an
> international non-gov organisation, unless of course you prefer it changes
> into a international inter-gov organisation, which I am sure you dont
> advocate... Can you point to the gap in this logical chain of 'my
> conclusion',
>
>
it is up to Milton to defend his position and I don't think that he
defended an continuity of any kind of US control. anyway you can read his
ideas in details at his blog.
I made the analogy to FIFA because it is international organisation too if
you mean diversity etc but also for the level of corruption and no
accountability there. I think that you can see the point here .
we can argue a lot about the legal status of the organisation but what
matters at the end is the mechanism for accountability, transparency ,
openness, inclusiveness .
And as you say if you are not arguing that ICANN "should be an US org
> under US laws ", then the question is "what kind of org and under what kind
> of law" do you advocate. Thanks.
>
I don't have an answer about the legal framework to be used or any other
organisational complexity, however I am thinking on how to avoid situation
where interests group try to expand trademark law there or governments use
GAC to push for content policy through gTLD or eroding privacy rights to
match LEA requests without any oversight or in contradiction to ehir own
data protection law. I am thinking on how we make the organisation
developing users-driven policies and not to respond to narrow governmental
or private interests.
coming from a small developing country struggling with a complicated and
painful democratic transition, I am more keen to defend citizen interests
and not by any geopolitical interests of some governments
Rafik
>
>
> parminder
>
> I have a question, maybe naive: if we have problem with one state to
> have dominant role as assumed by mant, how adding more states will solve
> the problem , a kind of zero sum game?
> another question, what benefit for the average users far from any
> geopolitical consideration in such case?
>
> Rafik
>
> 2013/11/30 parminder <parminder at itforchange.net>
>
>>
>> On Saturday 30 November 2013 10:19 AM, Rafik Dammak wrote:
>>
>> yes Milton it will make it the FIFA of IG world
>>
>> Rafik
>>
>>
>> Rafik, do you in that case agree that ICANN should remain an US
>> organisation, subject solely to US laws... parminder
>>
>>
>> 2013/11/30 Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu>
>>
>>> No, no, no, please. That level of specificity is counterproductive at
>>> this stage. Many people who have studied this issue believe that turning
>>> ICANN into an INGO is the surest way for it to escape what little
>>> accountability it currently has. Those willing to go along with a general
>>> call for reform in ICANN’s US-centered oversight need not commit themselves
>>> to a particular solution at this point, and the language below does that.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Please don’t come up with off the cuff quickie solutions for this. It
>>> will take more than a scan of Wikipedia to solve.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* michael gurstein [mailto:gurstein at gmail.com]
>>> *Sent:* Friday, November 29, 2013 7:49 PM
>>> *To:* governance at lists.igcaucus.org; 'Tracy F. Hackshaw @ Google'
>>> *Cc:* 'Norbert Bollow'; Milton L Mueller
>>> *Subject:* RE: [governance] DMP} Statement on Process and Objectives
>>> for the Global Multistakeholder Meeting on the Future of Internet Governance
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What about
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 1) Transitioning ICANN and IANA to an International
>>> Non-Governmental Organization (INGO) status: The Global Meeting should aim
>>> at developing a suitable and widely acceptable means to achieve the desired
>>> transition of ICANN and IANA away from its links to the USG and
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_nongovernmental_organization
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> M
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [
>>> mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org<governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org>]
>>> *On Behalf Of *Tracy F. Hackshaw @ Google
>>> *Sent:* Friday, November 29, 2013 2:39 PM
>>> *To:* governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> *Cc:* Norbert Bollow; Milton L Mueller
>>> *Subject:* Re: [governance] DMP} Statement on Process and Objectives
>>> for the Global Multistakeholder Meeting on the Future of Internet Governance
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ICANN (and its President/CEO) have been "encouraged" at several
>>> opportunities to adjust its "internationalization" rhetoric/terminology and
>>> thus its resulting INTERNATIONALIZATION thrust to one which is
>>> significantly more embrasive of the objectives of, and indeed, spirit of
>>> what GLOBALIZATION in theory, intends to achieve.
>>>
>>> I believe therefore that Milton's recommendation is timely and
>>> appropriate ... whether we use the term "Globalization" or a perhaps more
>>> compromising and less economics/free-market linked phrase or term such as
>>> "Global Integration", or more radically, "Glocalization".
>>>
>>> ------
>>> Rgds,
>>>
>>> Tracy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 29, 2013 4:52 PM, "Jean-Christophe NOTHIAS I The Global Journal" <
>>> jc.nothias at theglobaljournal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear Norbert, Dear Milton,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If I may contribute, with a somehow different and unusual perspective,
>>> and in my humble Global Governance observer capacity, for the pleasure of
>>> the reflection:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Internationalization*: one wants to have a larger international basis:
>>> more offices, more representatives, more of a network of local branches
>>> that, being put together, creates an international network. Still each
>>> element is mostly comparable to the starting point in terms of culture,
>>> thinking... Clones spread around the world? 'One for all' kind of
>>> uniformity. *Meaning many little ICANNs all around. *
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Globalization*: this could happen without a network of offices around
>>> the world. You can observe a very globalized entity containing so many
>>> different elements, co-exisiting, still assembling one strong outlet with a
>>> governance of its own, but embracing 'solutions' that could fit more than
>>> one single corporation, institution, nation. One voice, many voices... in a
>>> single global body. So one ICANN speaking from one point to the many in a
>>> global manner of thinking.
>>>
>>> *Meaning one ICANN with a big global mind.*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Transnationalization*: this tends to establish a community of people
>>> based in various locations, trying to forget about their local identity,
>>> interest or belonging, with the objective to address a more common,
>>> regional, transnational, trans-sectorial issue. A way to achieve an
>>> understanding of global magnitude.
>>>
>>> *Meaning one ICANN talking to other minds.*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> - The first option has a few advantages. You keep a greater control over
>>> the network, and at the end of the day, you can pretend to be a global
>>> minded outlet. Good communication value.
>>>
>>> - The second option is probably the most difficult to achieve, specially
>>> if you are not starting from a fully independent culture. Very challenging
>>> when one starts from a private or national basis.
>>>
>>> - The third option might be a good compromise, if each one puts trust in
>>> the other minds ('nods'?). But maybe a more sustainable approach, and
>>> ultimately, one that could deliver a true global minded system.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Obviously, very much to be criticized, but at least worth trying to
>>> explore. And quiet appropriate with the current state of the IG debate.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Semantic has a lasting effect over the narrative and the ultimate
>>> objective. A little bit like 'multistakeholder' which has emerged from the
>>> corporate jargon (to soften counter forces or opponents, executives would
>>> convene 'stakeholders' to the table for consultation (trade union,
>>> politician...). A pure communication tool. Plus, it has a very poor stable
>>> definition and understanding, and an even looser legal impact. Something
>>> that usually brings a lot of misunderstandings, deadlocks...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>>
>>> __________________________
>>>
>>> Jean-Christophe Nothias
>>> Editor in Chief
>>> jc.nothias at theglobaljournal.net
>>>
>>> @jc_nothias
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Le 29 nov. 2013 à 20:52, Norbert Bollow a écrit :
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Am Fri, 29 Nov 2013 19:28:57 +0000
>>> schrieb Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu>:
>>>
>>> Recognizing that this is a late intervention (Thursday a big family
>>>
>>> holiday in the US), is it possible to replace the word
>>>
>>> "internationalization" with "globalization"? Increasingly we live in
>>>
>>> a world where nations, and by extension the "inter-national" is not
>>>
>>> an adequate term to define transborder, global phenomena
>>>
>>>
>>> That's IMO a very valid point. Even though nation states and their
>>> governments of course continue to have a significant role, it has
>>> certainly become inadequate to try to understand transborder, global
>>> phenomena by the method (that was helpful in earlier times) of
>>> decomposing into what is happening at the national level plus what is
>>> happening in inter-national trade and other areas of inter-national
>>> relations.
>>>
>>> On the other hand, many civil society people including myself are very
>>> wary of the term "globalization", as globalization has often increased
>>> social injustices while doing nothing to resolve the kinds of concerns
>>> that the further "internationalization" of ICANN is intended to address.
>>>
>>> Maybe yet another term could be used???
>>>
>>> Greetings,
>>> Norbert
>>>
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>>
>>
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