[governance] Associated Press condemns US telephone record seizure

Riaz K Tayob riaz.tayob at gmail.com
Thu May 16 11:07:38 EDT 2013 

Responses below.

On 2013/05/16 05:23 PM, Milton L Mueller wrote:
>
> For those paying attention, the US public interest organizations and 
> civil libertarians are in a complete uproar about all these cases, 
> especially the AP case. Atty General Holder is under fire.
>

Of course they are. But on this list nary a word about it. In point of 
fact it is irrelevant according to McT.
>
> But Riaz and others seem to miss the point.
>

No I don't. It was a performative call to others on this list to provide 
their views. Its news everywhere, but irrelevant for this list. Funny, 
no? ... actually not.

> The point is not that the US state is flawless and holy,
>


Except that the context in which these and related arguments are made is 
that we can safely leave CIR under exclusive US jurisdiction - 
California in particular I recall. Any questioning of this is lambasted, 
ridiculed or sought to be silenced. These issues are corollaries. If you 
can assert yours, 1) I can assert mine on my own terms, 2) interrogate 
yours. If you know your pants are going to be pulled down while on the 
public stage, wear underwear. I mean what can I say here to help you?

> and therefore Riaz can gloat when it does bad things.
>


This goes to motive. Unfair. I point out the shortcomings in the 
adequacy of Peculiar Internationalism on a reasoned basis, albeit 
provocatively.

> To civil libertarians, ALL states are capable of such things, at ALL 
> times, and therefore one needs institutionalized rights such as the 
> U.S. Constitution and its Bill of Rights in order to keep them in check.
>


Very true. But law is not only known by its positive norms, but also by 
its exceptions. You cannot assert the one without the other. And then I 
am instructed on what to say on this list.

Or that I am gloating. Can you not see it as provocative so as to engage 
with the legal ecology of CIR under exclusive US jurisdiction? Is it not 
possible that third world countries will import bad legislation from the 
US and stifle our own laws (as is happening with security and terrorism 
after the PATRIOT Act, or that drafted by ALEC which asserts no access 
to information laws apply to it)? Too much is presumed, albeit I am 
trying to be provocative.

> We are certainly better off that those rights are enshrined in the 
> constitution than if they were not.
>

We agree. It failed Schwartz, like Japanese Americans before, precisely 
when he needed protection from the Leviathan the most. You can't 
seriously be telling me that the roof does not leak while it is not 
raining? Problem is, I am afraid that you are.

> Anyone standing yet? I assumed the US of A to be a country that has 
> great respect for the Bill of Rights - afterall it's oft cited as the 
> cause of every major riot, civil war, external military campaign - 
> "need to enforce Human Rights as per the Bill of Rights" - 
> coincidentally 22 hours ago I was just arguing with my sister (she's 
> in the US) about this very point :)
>
> -C
>
> On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 11:34 AM, Riaz K Tayob <riaz.tayob at gmail.com 
> <mailto:riaz.tayob at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> How very droll... will the American's that take their Bill of Rights 
> seriously please stand up... from Guantanamo lawyers who have attorney 
> client privilege violated by being bugged through to the Leviathan 
> monster that ate Aaron Schwartz (may he and his family know peace), 
> the priorities even of some Libertarians (as I see from the outside) 
> are misaligned...
>
> 14 May 2013 Last updated at 01:29 GMT
>
>
>   Associated Press condemns US telephone record seizure
>
> Man looks at his phone outside the offices of the Associated Press in 
> Manhattan, New York (13 May 2013)The government would not say why it 
> sought the Associated Press telephone records
>
> Continue reading the main story 
> <http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22519776#story_continues_1>
>
> The Associated Press has described the US government's secret seizure 
> of its journalists' telephone records as a "massive and unprecedented 
> intrusion".
>
> Chief executive Gary Pruitt said AP was told on Friday the justice 
> department had gathered records of outgoing calls from more than 20 
> phone lines 
> <http://www.ap.org/Content/AP-In-The-News/2013/Govt-obtains-wide-AP-phone-records-in-probe>.
>
> Mr Pruitt said there could be "no possible justification for such an 
> overbroad collection".
>
> The justice department has provided no explanation for the seizure.
>
> However, officials have previously said the US Attorney's Office in 
> the District of Columbia was conducting a criminal investigation into 
> information contained in an AP story last year.
>
> Published in May 2012, the article was about a CIA operation in Yemen 
> that foiled an al-Qaeda plot to blow up a US-bound airplane.
>
> Confidential sources
>
> The story was embarrassing to the government, coming shortly after it 
> had informed the public that there was nothing to suggest any such 
> attack had been planned, says the BBC's David Willis in Washington.
>
> Continue reading the main story 
> <http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22519776#story_continues_2>
>
>
>     "Start Quote
>
>     I am very troubled by these allegations and want to hear the
>     government's explanation"
>
> Senator Patrick Leahy Judiciary Committee chairman
>
> Records for the phone numbers of five reporters and an editor who were 
> involved in the AP story were among those obtained in April and May 2012.
>
> AP said the seizure of records for general switchboard numbers and a 
> fax line at its offices in New York, Hartford, in Connecticut, 
> Washington DC and the House of Representatives was unusual and largely 
> unprecedented.
>
> "There can be no possible justification for such an overbroad 
> collection of the telephone communications of the Associated Press and 
> its reporters," Mr Pruitt wrote in a letter to US Attorney General 
> Eric Holder 
> <http://www.ap.org/Images/Letter-to-Eric-Holder_tcm28-12896.pdf>.
>
> "These records potentially reveal communications with confidential 
> sources across all of the newsgathering activities undertaken by the 
> AP during a two-month period, provide a road map to AP's newsgathering 
> operations, and disclose information about AP's activities and 
> operations that the government has no conceivable right to know."
>
> It is not clear if the records seized included incoming calls or the 
> duration of the calls. Nor is it clear whether a judge or grand jury 
> approved the subpoenas.
>
> News organisations are normally notified in advance if the government 
> is seeking such information and are given time to negotiate.
>
> The Obama administration has aggressively investigated disclosures of 
> classified information to the media, bringing more cases against 
> people suspected of leaking such material than any previous 
> administration, our correspondent adds.
>
> 'Press intimidation'
>
> Darrell Issa, the Republican chairman of the investigative House of 
> Representatives Oversight and Government Reform Committee, criticised 
> the seizure of records.
>
> "They had an obligation to look for every other way to get it before 
> they intruded on the freedom of the press," he told CNN.
>
> Senator Patrick Leahy, the Democratic chairman of the Senate Judiciary 
> Committee, said in a statement emailed to AP: "I am very troubled by 
> these allegations and want to hear the government's explanation."
>
> The American Civil Liberties Union accused the Obama administration of 
> "press intimidation".
>
> In a statement, the US Attorney's Office in the District of Columbia 
> insisted it took seriously its obligations to "follow all applicable 
> laws, federal regulations, and Department of Justice policies".
>
> "Those regulations require us to make every reasonable effort to 
> obtain information through alternative means before even considering a 
> subpoena for the phone records of a member of the media," it said.
>
> "Because we value the freedom of the press, we are always careful and 
> deliberative in seeking to strike the right balance between the public 
> interest in the free flow of information and the public interest in 
> the fair and effective administration of our criminal laws," it added.
>
>
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