[governance] Spamhaus

[Adam Peake]

On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 5:28 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian
<suresh at hserus.net> wrote:
> There are best practices.  But all these blocklists are run by various
> individuals, and getting them all to follow best practices is almost as (if
> not more) difficult than trying to make people on this list stay on topic
> and not go off on rants about anything from tax avoidance onwards.
>

consequences of our rants are a little less harmful :-)

>
> The advantage that blocklists have over this situation is that only the best
> managed and most professionally run blocklists will survive for long and
> have a significant adoption in the market.
>

And while these "others" are failing to survive is someone likely to
suffer from their poor work?

Is more transparency and accountability needed?

Suresh, I know this is a topic you're expert on.  Would be good to
hear more about how blacklisting/blocklist services work. If those of
you in the business think there should be changes made to how
blocklists are operatred? (and other mechanism? If there are "other"?)

Adam



> --srs (iPad)
>
> On 28-Mar-2013, at 13:49, "Carlos A. Afonso" <ca at cafonso.ca> wrote:
>
> A crucial failure of the antispam services is the lack of clear methods to
> communicate with legitimate services which they unilaterally decide to
> blacklist. Like any other service, blacklisting a legitimate service without
> first informing the service of  impending action is unacceptable, even if
> some of these blacklisters are nonprofit.
>
> Whatever the several RFCs on the subject recommend, most do not  follow
> basic rules which, if violated, would be illegal in any country with
> reasonable consumer laws and rules which regulate proper business practices.
>
> We operate our nonprofit Internet services since the beginning of the 90s.
> In several cases in which one of our services was about to be blacklisted,
> we received proper communication and were able to act to fix the problem.
> But recently most of these services do not bother to get in touch, and
> provide scant or non-existent ways to check why the service was blacklisted.
> The fact that several blacklisters are derivations from others compounds the
> problem, which is aggravated when these services are converted into
> money-making joints (even if disguised as nonprofit).
>
> Above all, there is need for far better coordination and a clear code of
> conduct.
>
> fraternal regards
>
> --c.a.
>
> ------------
> C. A. Afonso
>
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Suresh Ramasubramanian <suresh at hserus.net>
> Date: 27/03/2013 21:15 (GMT-03:00)
> To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org,"Carlos A. Afonso" <ca at cafonso.ca>
> Cc: governance at lists.igcaucus.org,Deirdre Williams
> <williams.deirdre at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [governance] Spamhaus
>
>
> Barracuda is a single vendor .. One out of two or three comparatively more
> obscure ones that seem to do this.
>
> In the over a decade spamhaus has operated I have not seen spamhaus people
> take a single penny from anyone at all in matters to do with listing or
> removal of IPs.
>
> Did you get listed by spamhaus ever?  I am not counting any of the dozens of
> poorly operated blocklists out there, most of which have one guy and his
> family dog using them compared to spamhaus that has a footprint of billions
> of mailboxes across ISPs, civil society organizations, industry and
> individuals with their own mail servers using it.
>
> --srs (iPad)
>
> On 27-Mar-2013, at 23:20, "Carlos A. Afonso" <ca at cafonso.ca> wrote:
>
>> I have been reporting cases revealing the absurd autonomy antispam
>> businesses have, our services being one of the thousands of victims. Now it
>> seems that finally more voices are joining in trying to at least discuss the
>> issues.
>>
>> We have all of our addresses perfectly identified in *thick* WHOIS, we
>> keep to all rules regarding relating our addresses to our services, and
>> still we eventually get caught by an antispam "service" proposing we pay
>> them money to get out of it. I recall the case of the infamous Barracuda,
>> which sells antispam software, as the first to try and extort money from us.
>> Since we protested in quite strong terms and made a bit of a noise, they
>> left us alone. But there are plenty of others.
>>
>> Where is the technical community when we need it? :)
>>
>> frt rgds
>>
>> --c.a.
>>
>> On 03/27/2013 10:33 AM, Deirdre Williams wrote:
>>> And meanwhile, quietly, and apparently below the radar ...
>>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21954636
>>> Deirdre
>>
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