[governance] China's next-generation internet is a world-beater - tech - 10 March 2013 - New Scientist

[parminder]

Dear Nick

Some responses below


On Wednesday 13 March 2013 11:51 AM, Nick Ashton-Hart wrote:
> <SNIP>
>
> Let's accept for the moment that what you say is a true statement. Why 
> would you see treaty-making as likely to counter these impacts, given 
> the scenario you posit? In fact, a treaty, in this case, would be 
> likely to cast in stone the very inequalities and dangers that you see.

What do you think of various human rights instruments, that were 
globally negotiated, in times much worse than today. How do you explain 
them?
>
> Treaty-making, in my 20+ years of experience, is largely a 
> codification of existing practice, not an evolution to create a new 
> global situation:


I dont think we can right now jump into an ominbus Internet treaty, and 
I am not sure it will  ever be required/ useful. However, we can start 
will trying to put together some higher level Internet principles.  We 
can also begin to discuss and try to seek solutions, and as possibly 
codify them, on emergent issues like cross border data flows, net 
neutrality, basic content flow and FoE guarantees, regulation of global 
Internet business, global competition policy frameworks in the Internet 
space, and so on.

  Before that we can and should try to put together a formal place where 
such  things can actually be codified (other than, say OECD's CCICP) in 
a democratic manner, if and when there is a political will to do so. But 
right now the dominant powers, and there numerous supporters, simply 
refuse to even allow a UN based space to start considering these issues, 
with a /possibility/ of being able to do something about them. That is 
the problem right now, and it cant be pushed away by providing generally 
pessimistic perspectives on the world's political capabilities.


> governments are simply unwilling to do much that changes their 
> existing legal system profoundly excepting very rarely and then only 
> because of a massive external threat or stress - which the negotiation 
> is designed to deal with.

Nick, you are referring to a classical political dilemma, and human race 
has constantly surprised itself by rising above it and acting 
collectively in larger public interest. As Hobbes described the human 
life as solitary, poor, nasty, /brutish/, and /short /and//yet (or 
because of that), they could enter into a social contract and organise  
into political communities..... Everyone around me sees enough 
problematic aspects of how the Internet is evolving, and they are keen 
that if possible something should be done about it. Is it not the view 
of the people you meet?

BTW, did you see the latest Hollywood movie on Lincoln, that great 
leader of people. Does it not explain how people can actually act what 
appears to be against their narrow self interest, for a larger good. Why 
else would a bunch of white American together decide to liberate slaves 
(the whole movie being about this great phenomenon), and lose on cheap 
captive labour, and all great enjoyments of life that come with it? Can 
you explain this phenomenon, and I will explain to you why countries, if 
put together, can, and will, indeed work out agreements in public interest.

parminder




>
>> What is happening at the larger social-structural level, and which I 
>> consider as the greatest threat to democracy, is a clear move from 
>> public governance, based on social contract, to private governance, 
>> based on private, interest-based, contracts. And the shift is rather 
>> systemic. It is obviously strongly supported, in fact instigated, by 
>> global capital which finds the biggest challenge to its domination of 
>> all aspects of our lives in the universal values of equity, 
>> fraternity and solidarity, that underlie public governance systems.

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