[governance] Facebook spent $4 million to lobby U.S. lawmakers in 2012

Sat Jan 26 16:19:01 EST 2013

Michael,

thanks a lot for your valuable feedback. I will refrain fast enough that no-one has a chance to consider your comments as a manifestation of "thought police."

For my edification I will be thankful for a proposal you could make. There may be a need for a code that provides list-acceptable expressions for the following:

1. I enthusiastically agree with what was said (we already have "+1")

2. I find this statement incorrect/false/outrageous but don't want to discuss it further as doing so would totally derail the conversation.

... and so on. If you do believe as many do that "manners is morals", let those willing spend some cycles codifying manners further.

I will come back to the track you propose on RFC 6852.

Yours,

Alejandro Pisanty

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
     Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
Facultad de Química UNAM
Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico

+52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD

+525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475
Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
.  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .

________________________________
Desde: michael gurstein [gurstein at gmail.com]
Enviado el: sábado, 26 de enero de 2013 15:01
Hasta: 'Nick Ashton-Hart'; governance at lists.igcaucus.org
CC: Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch
Asunto: RE: [governance] Facebook spent $4 million to lobby U.S. lawmakers in 2012

Hmmm… what is Saturday for some is Sunday morning for others…

M

From: Nick Ashton-Hart [mailto:nashton at ccianet.org]
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 10:39 AM
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; michael gurstein
Cc: 'Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch'
Subject: Re: [governance] Facebook spent $4 million to lobby U.S. lawmakers in 2012

A little levity never hurt anyone - especially on a Saturday night :)

On 26 Jan 2013, at 18:47, "michael gurstein" <gurstein at gmail.com<mailto:gurstein at gmail.com>> wrote:

These continuing sniggering comments concerning "world peace" are to my mind unbecoming…

And in fact, without using those exact terms (did anyone in fact, directly refer to "world peace") issues of the governing the Internet in the global public interest (or not) are very very much issues of concern to this group and if anyone questions whether they are directly pertinent to our immediate discussion I would refer you to my comments on the document that Stephane and Avri have just now circulated for sign-on to the IGC.

M

From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org<mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org> [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org<mailto:request at lists.igcaucus.org>] On Behalf Of Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 9:23 AM
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org<mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>; Nick Ashton-Hart; Guru गुरु
Subject: RE: [governance] Facebook spent $4 million to lobby U.S. lawmakers in 2012

Nick,

"Folks, is tax policy really what people are interested in having an effect on in the IGC list? Is this a battle you really want to enter into, given the very real threats the open Internet faces today?"

And world peace.

Alejandro Pisanty

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
     Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
Facultad de Química UNAM
Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico

+52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD

+525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475
Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
.  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .

________________________________
Desde: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org<mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org> [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org<mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org>] en nombre de Nick Ashton-Hart [nashton at ccianet.org<mailto:nashton at ccianet.org>]
Enviado el: sábado, 26 de enero de 2013 02:35
Hasta: governance at lists.igcaucus.org<mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>; Guru गुरु
Asunto: Re: [governance] Facebook spent $4 million to lobby U.S. lawmakers in 2012
Guru said:

The scandalously low effective tax rates of the IT transnationals can also be seen as some kind of implicit subsidy ... and measures/experiments like that of the French Govt are required to help correct this situation - by reducing the lobbying power of these corporates and also getting the funding required by governments to support basic societal infrastructure, including soft infrastructure like public education and public health..

My reply:

The rates being paid by IT companies are not different than other types of companies. For example, I believe GE paid effectively 14% tax globally last year. Corporate tax rates overall do not differentiate by sector - though, of course, some vertical markets do get exemptions and credits designed to encourage certain activities by them.

If you believe that companies should pay more, that's fine - but to suggest that IT companies are particularly bad in some way does a disservice, I think, to the overall objective which many seek: reforming the tax system so that companies, in general, pay a larger share of tax.

This is, by the way, extremely complex and there are powerful incentives for countries to incentivise FDI by, among other measures, favourable tax regimes. It will be incredibly difficult to get enough countries that are desirable markets for industry to sign up to a broad range of measures to synchronise taxes to produce the desired end - the incentives to attract FDI are simply very powerful.

What the French are proposing (not for the first time) is not going to help anything; it is soapbox policy, designed for an internal audience of French people. Like the 75% tax on wealthy individuals they propose, it wouldn't raise enough money to solve France's real deficit issues; it would just make France even less competitive an economy than it already is.

Folks, is tax policy really what people are interested in having an effect on in the IGC list? Is this a battle you really want to enter into, given the very real threats the open Internet faces today?
--
Regards,

Nick Ashton-Hart

Need to meet with me? Schedule the time that suits us both here: http://meetme.so/nashton

Sent from my one of my handheld thingies, please excuse linguistic mangling.

On 26 Jan 2013, at 04:49, "Guru गुरु" <Guru at itforchange.net<mailto:Guru at itforchange.net>> wrote:
The scandalously low effective tax rates of the IT transnationals can also be seen as some kind of implicit subsidy ... and measures/experiments like that of the French Govt are required to help correct this situation - by reducing the lobbying power of these corporates and also getting the funding required by governments to support basic societal infrastructure, including soft infrastructure like public education and public health..
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
    governance at lists.igcaucus.org<mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
To be removed from the list, visit:
    http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
    http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
    http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20130126/dab7fe01/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t