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Michael,
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<div>thanks a lot for your valuable feedback. I will refrain fast enough that no-one has a chance to consider your comments as a manifestation of "thought police." </div>
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<div>For my edification I will be thankful for a proposal you could make. There may be a need for a code that provides list-acceptable expressions for the following:</div>
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<div>1. I enthusiastically agree with what was said (we already have "+1")</div>
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<div>2. I find this statement incorrect/false/outrageous but don't want to discuss it further as doing so would totally derail the conversation. </div>
<div><br>
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<div>... and so on. If you do believe as many do that "manners is morals", let those willing spend some cycles codifying manners further.</div>
<div><br>
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<div>I will come back to the track you propose on RFC 6852. </div>
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<div>Yours,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Alejandro Pisanty</div>
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- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - <br>
Dr. Alejandro Pisanty<br>
Facultad de Química UNAM </font></span></span></div>
<div style="font-family:Tahoma; font-size:13px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="widows:2; text-transform:none; text-indent:0px; letter-spacing:normal; border-collapse:separate; font:medium 'Times New Roman'; white-space:normal; orphans:2; color:rgb(0,0,0); word-spacing:0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:arial; font-size:small"><font size="2" face="Courier New">Av.
Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico</font></span></span></div>
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<p><span class="Apple-style-span" style="widows:2; text-transform:none; text-indent:0px; letter-spacing:normal; border-collapse:separate; font:medium 'Times New Roman'; white-space:normal; orphans:2; color:rgb(0,0,0); word-spacing:0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:arial; font-size:small"><font size="2" face="Courier New">+52-1-5541444475
FROM ABROAD </font></span></span></p>
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DESDE MÉXICO </font></span></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="widows:2; text-transform:none; text-indent:0px; letter-spacing:normal; border-collapse:separate; font:medium 'Times New Roman'; white-space:normal; orphans:2; color:rgb(0,0,0); word-spacing:0px"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:arial; font-size:small"><font size="2" face="Courier New">SMS
+525541444475 </font></span></span><br>
Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com<br>
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty<br>
Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614<br>
Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty<br>
---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org<br>
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . </font></p>
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<div id="divRpF101271" style="direction: ltr;"><font face="Tahoma" size="2" color="#000000"><b>Desde:</b> michael gurstein [gurstein@gmail.com]<br>
<b>Enviado el:</b> sábado, 26 de enero de 2013 15:01<br>
<b>Hasta:</b> 'Nick Ashton-Hart'; governance@lists.igcaucus.org<br>
<b>CC:</b> Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch<br>
<b>Asunto:</b> RE: [governance] Facebook spent $4 million to lobby U.S. lawmakers in 2012<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Hmmm… what is Saturday for some is Sunday morning for others…</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Nick Ashton-Hart [mailto:nashton@ccianet.org]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, January 26, 2013 10:39 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> governance@lists.igcaucus.org; michael gurstein<br>
<b>Cc:</b> 'Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [governance] Facebook spent $4 million to lobby U.S. lawmakers in 2012</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">A little levity never hurt anyone - especially on a Saturday night :)</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 26 Jan 2013, at 18:47, "michael gurstein" <<a href="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com" target="_blank">gurstein@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">These continuing sniggering comments concerning "world peace" are to my mind unbecoming…</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">And in fact, without using those exact terms (did anyone in fact, directly refer to "world peace") issues of the governing the Internet in the global public
interest (or not) are very very much issues of concern to this group and if anyone questions whether they are directly pertinent to our immediate discussion I would refer you to my comments on the document that Stephane and Avri have just now circulated for
sign-on to the IGC.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> </span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""><a href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</span></a><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>[mailto:governance-<a href="mailto:request@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">request@lists.igcaucus.org</span></a>]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Saturday, January 26, 2013 9:23 AM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</span></a>; Nick Ashton-Hart; Guru<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Mangal","serif"">गुरु</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>RE: [governance] Facebook spent $4 million to lobby U.S. lawmakers in 2012</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Courier New"">Nick,</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Courier New"">"</span><span style="font-size:13.5pt">Folks, is tax policy really what people are interested in having an effect on in the IGC list? Is this a battle you really want to enter into,
given the very real threats the open Internet faces today?"</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">And world peace.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Alejandro Pisanty</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-style-span"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Courier New"">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - </span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Courier New""><br>
<span class="apple-style-span"> Dr. Alejandro Pisanty</span><br>
<span class="apple-style-span">Facultad de Química UNAM</span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-style-span"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Courier New"">Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico</span></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> </span></p>
<p><span class="apple-style-span"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Courier New"">+52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD</span></span></p>
<p><span class="apple-style-span"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Courier New"">+525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475</span></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Courier New""> </span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Courier New""><br>
Blog:<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://pisanty.blogspot.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">http://pisanty.blogspot.com</span></a><br>
LinkedIn:<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty</span></a><br>
Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn,<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614</span></a><br>
Twitter:<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://twitter.com/apisanty" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">http://twitter.com/apisanty</span></a><br>
---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico,<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.isoc.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">http://www.isoc.org</span></a><br>
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Desde:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> </span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""><a href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</span></a><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>[<a href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</span></a>]
en nombre de Nick Ashton-Hart [<a href="mailto:nashton@ccianet.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">nashton@ccianet.org</span></a>]<br>
<b>Enviado el:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>sábado, 26 de enero de 2013 02:35<br>
<b>Hasta:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</span></a>; Guru<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Mangal","serif"">गुरु</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""><br>
<b>Asunto:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [governance] Facebook spent $4 million to lobby U.S. lawmakers in 2012</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Guru said:</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">The scandalously low effective tax rates of the IT transnationals can also be seen as some kind of implicit subsidy ... and measures/experiments like that of the French Govt are required to help correct this situation - by reducing the
lobbying power of these corporates and also getting the funding required by governments to support basic societal infrastructure, including soft infrastructure like public education and public health.. </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">My reply:</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">The rates being paid by IT companies are not different than other types of companies. For example, I believe GE paid effectively 14% tax globally last year. Corporate tax rates overall do not differentiate by sector - though, of course,
some vertical markets do get exemptions and credits designed to encourage certain activities by them.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">If you believe that companies should pay more, that's fine - but to suggest that IT companies are particularly bad in some way does a disservice, I think, to the overall objective which many seek: reforming the tax system so that companies,
in general, pay a larger share of tax.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">This is, by the way, extremely complex and there are powerful incentives for countries to incentivise FDI by, among other measures, favourable tax regimes. It will be incredibly difficult to get enough countries that are desirable markets
for industry to sign up to a broad range of measures to synchronise taxes to produce the desired end - the incentives to attract FDI are simply very powerful.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">What the French are proposing (not for the first time) is not going to help anything; it is soapbox policy, designed for an internal audience of French people. Like the 75% tax on wealthy individuals they propose, it wouldn't raise enough
money to solve France's real deficit issues; it would just make France even less competitive an economy than it already is.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Folks, is tax policy really what people are interested in having an effect on in the IGC list? Is this a battle you really want to enter into, given the very real threats the open Internet faces today?</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">-- </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Regards,</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Nick Ashton-Hart</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Need to meet with me? Schedule the time that suits us both here: <a href="http://meetme.so/nashton" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">http://meetme.so/nashton</span></a></b></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Sent from my one of my handheld thingies, please excuse linguistic mangling.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
On 26 Jan 2013, at 04:49, "Guru<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><span style="font-family:"Mangal","serif"">गुरु</span>" <<a href="mailto:Guru@itforchange.net" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">Guru@itforchange.net</span></a>> wrote:</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">The scandalously low effective tax rates of the IT transnationals can also be seen as some kind of implicit subsidy ... and measures/experiments like that of the French Govt are required to help correct this situation - by reducing the
lobbying power of these corporates and also getting the funding required by governments to support basic societal infrastructure, including soft infrastructure like public education and public health..</p>
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