[governance] France Proposes an Internet Tax

[michael gurstein]

Milton<

 

From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
[mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Milton L Mueller
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 12:50 PM
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
Subject: RE: [governance] France Proposes an Internet Tax

 

 

 

Milton, is it that you don't like this particular tax or that you don't like
taxes in general.

 

[Milton L Mueller] My message makes it abundantly clear what I don't like
about it: the rationale is phony (work without pay);

[MG>] I would very much like to see the underlying argument here before I
made any judgement. the 200 page document that accompanied the announcement
was unforunately only in French and I won't have the time to look through it
in any detail until the earliest next week. I think the argument itself is
possibly a very interesting and novel one and is attempting to get at the
underlying structure of new social media--whether they've got it right or
not is another question on which I personally will hold off judgement (i.e.
I won't react to headlines on what I think is a complex discussion

 

it's a political attempt to capitalize on anti-Google/FB sentiment (tax them
because we don't like them);

[MG>] I don't see that at all. if they are looking to find a way of taxing a
category of activity and that activity is dominated (effectively
monopolized) by one or another corporation that doesn't mean that they are
"capitaliz(ing) on anti-Google/FB sentiment (tax them because we don't like
them) it simply means that those subject to that particular tax are those
companies in that monopoly position.

 

it looks suspiciously like an attempt at discrimination based on national
origin;

[MG>] see above

 

it is stupidly conceived (it taxes advertisers, the customers of Google/FB,
which does not help users who allegedly work without pay.)

[MG>] see above. taxes are levied in one place and ultimately change
cost/revenue structures somewhere else, that's how the system works isn't
it.

 

what you would replace it with to obtain revenues from this emerging sector
assuming that you think folks like Google and their Internet compatriots
should pay their fair share as very many are now insisting.  

If it is the latter I would be curious to know how you see responsible
states being able to meet the challenge of reponding to the collective
challenges/responsibilities of the modern state so ably articulated last
evening by your President.

 

[Milton L Mueller] A corporate income tax, a personal income tax and a VAT -
all of which Europe already has - capture growth in any "emerging sector."
Or are you advocating taxing things just for the sake of taxing them?

[MG>] see above. however, it seems that for whatever reason the French (and
a whole posse of other governments) are finding it very difficult under
current legislation/regulation to get a fair share of taxation from the
Internet giants and are trying to figure out how to do that. I'm guessing
that the French proposal is one experiment in that direction and if it
succeeds it will be copied by that posse and others 

 

Frankly, that wouldn't surprise me.

[MG>] this is ad hominen

 

[Milton L Mueller] Besides, no case has been made that the French government
really needs more money,

[MG>] I'm not sure that that is for you to decide.

 

or that social media impose costs on it that need to be recovered.

[MG>] The position that taxes are somehow only to be levied as a means to
cover related costs is a political stance promoted by mostly fringe
libertarian ideologists and is not one that appears consistent with most
current perspectives on public finance.

 

 But if it does need additional revenues for legitimate purposes, then they
can increase the rate of neutral taxes and not target them on specific types
of businesses based on misconceptions about the underlying bargain behind
social media. 

[MG>] see above

 

Unless, of course, you think social media, like alcohol and tobacco, are
inherently bad and need to be taxed to discourage their use. (Do you? Then
come out and say it.)

[MG>] that's just silly

 

M

 

 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20130122/618737fb/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t