[governance] [bestbits] Call to Best Bits participants for nominations to Brazil meeting committees

Thu Dec 26 07:25:27 EST 2013

David,

Deeply faulty? Hmmm, hmmm.

One question: from what I understand in this thread, there is a clique who wishes to have a representative in a 'committee'? And the answer so far is no, because :

1_ This representative won't be able to 'work' with others (Bill, Wolfang, Avri, Suresh...? Sorry I am lost here with the ones standing behind the arguments)
2_ This representative is himself part of a clique
3_ This representative will not, when attending the committee, represent all the other cliques
4_ So time is needed for greater consideration of the decision, in case, more arguments would pop up.

This is indeed sounds very intriguing.

Questions
1_ Are you expecting each of the representatives, each of them belonging to his own clique of choice, to represent all the different cliques' views? One representative would then hold all the other representatives' view?
2_ How many of these gentle, and impressive, representatives - talking each of them on behalf of all the cliques- do you think we need to have to obtain a drawing of all views as seen per these amazing many-views representatives? So X all-view representatives would then discuss all-views? 
2bis_Would these X all-view representatives consider these views more or less, depending of the 'dominance' of each view? How do you assess dominance by the way?
3_ What's the members of such committee's job at the end of the day? Shall each of them present his view of all other views? 
4_ What will be the purpose of the committee's meeting? Agreeing on a collective understanding over one view of all the views of the different cliques? Or gathering all the different views on a list? Or anything else?
5_ Is this committee a private club? Or aiming at some public policy? 

This is all a very fun game. How do you call this, as I don't find here anything related to Democracy  - You would be quite right to point our that IG has nothing to do with Democracy. Then, what is it that we are trying to achieve here? 

I do believe that by acting is this way, we only demonstrate the overall incapacity of such representativity (whatever you will end with) to pretend acting in a fair way to CS, whatever clique we are thinking of.

We know about what a Democratic divide or gap can do to our societies, and when fascists begin to prosper, it usually comes with this type of behavior. IG seems to be a 'mort-né' process. In such a case, all IG efforts will be easily constrain to stay un-heard, and un-productive. Maybe this is what the dominant representatives (5 Eyes, I*...) are looking for?

Thanks for elaborating a bit over the concrete results you are aiming at. 

JC

Le 26 déc. 2013 à 07:23, David Cake a écrit :

> MIchael, this is a deeply faulty analogy. 
> No one is arguing that minority views should not be part of the 'civil society' club. Only that those selected as representatives of civil society are willing to act as representatives of the various diverging views of civil society - to use your analogy, that those selected to represent the club are willing to represent more than their own small clique among its members. 
> 
> If you honestly believe that we should select representatives of civil society who intend only to represent their small fraction - not only does this baffle me as a strategy, but I am quite baffled as to why those representatives would be listened to by anyone. 
> 	
> Regards
> 
> David
> 
> On 25 Dec 2013, at 6:42 am, michael gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> And since others from the "Civil Society Coordinating Committee" have peddling this line in this venue as well...
>> 
>> M
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: michael gurstein [mailto:gurstein at gmail.com] 
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 25, 2013 5:36 AM
>> To: 'Avri Doria'; 'Bits bestbits at lists.bestbits.net'
>> Subject: RE: [bestbits] Call to Best Bits participants for nominations to Brazil meeting committees
>> 
>> In England, where I spent some idle years pursuing an education they had a term--"clubbable"--what it meant was, whether you were suitable to be asked to "join the club"... 
>> 
>> Now among the overt criteria for being "clubbable" was of course, whether you were "nice" enough, whether you would fit in with the existing members, make them feel comfortable and all warm and cozy at and in your presence.
>> 
>> Of course what that really meant was whether you were sufficiently "like us" for them to let you into the club... whether you were the right colour, or the right gender, had gone to the right schools, were of an appropriate religion, and of course, overall whether your "politics/value system" would be such as to support the "club's" status quo--their perq's and privileges, folkways and prejudices...
>> 
>> Needless to say I was never "invited".
>> 
>> But I have to ask here, are you folks really serious about this--having as a criteria for joining a "Coordinating Committee" of "Civil Society" whether someone adheres to kindergarten rules of playing "nice"... 
>> 
>> If that is so then surely any right minded person would treat this self-selected grouping and this process with the contempt and derision it deserves.
>> 
>> M
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: bestbits-request at lists.bestbits.net [mailto:bestbits-request at lists.bestbits.net] On Behalf Of Avri Doria
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 7:24 PM
>> To: Bits bestbits at lists.bestbits.net
>> Subject: Re: [bestbits] Call to Best Bits participants for nominations to Brazil meeting committees
>> 
>> [MG>] snipped...
>> 
>> So sure put in the criterion of including minority viewpoints, but also put in the criterion of "plays well with others."
>> 
>> avri
>> 
>> 
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