[governance] All power should be in the hands of the engineers? (was Re: HLLM in LOndon - CS reps)

[McTim]

On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 9:51 AM, Norbert Bollow <nb at bollow.ch> wrote:
> McTim <dogwallah at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 4:28 AM, Norbert Bollow <nb at bollow.ch> wrote:
>> > In relation to Jean-Christophe's posting quoted below...
>> >
>> > Those remarks of Alejandro Pisanty (who by the way is not only
>> > Chair of ISOC Mexico, but also definitely an influential person in
>> > the global technical community, for example he has served three
>> > terms as an ICANN board member, and he is currently on ISOC's Board
>> > of Trustees)
>>
>> and a member of this list (at least formerly and perhaps currently as
>> a lurker) and therefore part of CS.
>
> Are you seriously proposing being a current or past subscriber to this
> or any other mailing list results in the person being "therefore" part
> of civil society???


yes

 (There are several reasonable approaches to roughly
> defining the "civil society" stakeholder category, and there's room for
> reasonable disagreement between proponents of them, but I wouldn't
> expect anyone to seriously view being a subscriber to the list as being
> indicative in one way or the other!)

What you consider unreasonable seems reasonable to me.


>> are at
>> > minutes 50:00-57:00 in this video:
>> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtOfsC2n_lQ
>> >
>> > Although the agenda that he is promoting is absolutely shocking when
>> > looked at from any mainstream civil society perspective
>>
>> What exactly is shocking?
>
> a) what he actually said, in particular the statements that
> Jean-Christophe has quoted


Which sentences exactly, or is it everything?

>
> b) the agenda which in my view / analysis is behind those statements
>
> c) these things being well received in the context where they were said
>
>> > In effect, he's saying that all power should be in the hands of the
>> > engineers and by implication in the hands of the companies for which
>> > they're working
>>
>> He didn't say that at all. Listen to it again maybe?
>
> I started that sentence with "in effect, he's saying". In other words,
> the sentence presents my analysis of what he's saying means in effect.
>
>> > , and he is promoting the use of smoke screen tactics
>> > that aim at preventing anyone else from gaining an effective
>> > influence.
>> >
>> > Civil society absolutely needs to find a good way to deal with this
>> > kind of tactics.
>> >
>> > These tactics have been successfully used *within* civil society
>> > networks such as the IGC with the aim of preventing IGC from being
>> > an effective civil society voice
>>
>> So voicing a truly held opinion is a "tactic"?
>
> Not necessarily; it can be part of a tactic though. Choices about where
> and how to voice one's opinion, and on which subset of the topics under
> discussion, are tactical in nature though.
>
>> Your inability to accept diversity of opinion is showing (again).
>
> Thanks for the insult.

Is it an insult if it is the truth?  I joined IGC because ALL voices
could be heard.  Once again an attempt is being made to divide, not
build bridges.

-- 
Cheers,

McTim
"A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A
route indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel

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