[governance] Fwd: [At-Large] The Internet as we know it is dead

Milton L Mueller mueller at syr.edu
Thu Aug 29 17:46:32 EDT 2013 

I would have to reject the way you presume that the society = the state. That is the whole point of my argument - they are not the same, _especially_ in cyberspace.
I also would have to question your assumption that "asymmetries" (not entirely clear what you mean by this, but I assume you mean inequalities) are overcome or mitigated via the existence of states.  Wow, what an assumption. So in the world of states, there is no asymmetry between USA and Uruguay, or between China and Laos. Hmmmm.

But of course, such problems are not easy to overcome. No one said they were.


From: Diego Rafael Canabarro [mailto:diegocanabarro at gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2013 4:56 PM
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Ian Peter
Cc: Milton L Mueller; Adam Peake
Subject: Re: [governance] Fwd: [At-Large] The Internet as we know it is dead

The "denationalized model" proposed in Networks and States intentionally puts asymmetries aside. And for the larger part of those 190 or so states (and their societies), asymmetries (especially socioeconomic ones) are high priority in their international affairs. It doesn't seem to be something easy to overcome, does it?

Regards
Diego

On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 5:33 PM, Ian Peter <ian.peter at ianpeter.com<mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com>> wrote:
Well stated Milton!

"The choice is not "the multistakeholder model" vs. the ITU. It is the denationalization of Internet governance vs. the international anarchy of governance by 190 nation-states."

From: Milton L Mueller<mailto:mueller at syr.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2013 6:15 AM
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org<mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org> ; 'Adam Peake'<mailto:ajp at glocom.ac.jp>
Subject: RE: [governance] Fwd: [At-Large] The Internet as we know it is dead

One of many expressions of (justified) concern at the implications of the NSA revelations, particularly when everyone was so paranoid about how a mere mention of unsolicited bulk email in the ITRs would have (allegedly) cleared the way for systematic surveillance. Well, it turns out systematic surveillance was already happening... And this was quite predictable. We need to take more seriously now the 'realist' argument I have been advancing regarding the role of states in Internet governance:

The biggest threats to Internet freedom today do not come from intergovernmental organizations. They come from national governments with the institutional mechanisms to regulate, restrict, surveil, censor and license Internet suppliers and users. National governments have police forces, armies - and armies of regulators. This includes, especially, our own government, which has greater global reach than any other state. (from http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/article/Greatest-threat-to-Internet-governments-3723621.php#page-2 )

This was written before the Snowden revelations, btw. States exist in a state of anarchy, when it comes to national security and military affairs. Thus it should be
The choice is not "the multistakeholder model" vs. the ITU. It is the denationalization of Internet governance vs. the international anarchy of governance by 190 nation-states.

From: apeake at gmail.com<mailto:apeake at gmail.com> [mailto:apeake at gmail.com<mailto:apeake at gmail.com>] On Behalf Of Adam Peake
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2013 6:59 AM
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org<mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
Subject: [governance] Fwd: [At-Large] The Internet as we know it is dead

Interesting comments.

Adam


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels at gmail.com<mailto:carlton.samuels at gmail.com>>
Date: Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 4:25 AM
Subject: [At-Large] The Internet as we know it is dead
To: "lac-discuss-en at atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:lac-discuss-en at atlarge-lists.icann.org>" <lac-discuss-en at atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:lac-discuss-en at atlarge-lists.icann.org>>, At-Large Worldwide <at-large at atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large at atlarge-lists.icann.org>>


The CEO of CIRA shares some thoughts on the future of the Internet

http://blog.cira.ca/2013/08/the-internet-as-we-know-it-is-dead/?goback=%2Egde_110405_member_268692395#%21

-Carlton

==============================
Carlton A Samuels
Mobile: 876-818-1799<tel:876-818-1799>
*Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround*
=============================
_______________________________________________
At-Large mailing list
At-Large at atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large at atlarge-lists.icann.org>
https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large

At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org

________________________________
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org<mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org<mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t



--
Diego R. Canabarro
http://lattes.cnpq.br/4980585945314597

--
diego.canabarro [at] ufrgs.br<http://ufrgs.br>
diego [at] pubpol.umass.edu<http://pubpol.umass.edu>
MSN: diegocanabarro [at] gmail.com<http://gmail.com>
Skype: diegocanabarro
Cell # +55-51-9244-3425 (Brasil) / +1-413-362-0133 (USA)
--
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20130829/d50d4633/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

More information about the Governance mailing list