[governance] Secret Surveillance Puts Internet Governance System at Risk
parminder
parminder at itforchange.net
Thu Aug 8 08:14:04 EDT 2013
Yes, moving towards 'digital sovereignty' is not easily sustainable, on
many counts.... But then a global architecture of data flows. storage
and generally cloud computing will require global norms, principles and
regulation that are arrived at in an open, participative and democratic
manner...
And also US has to stop enforcing such digital sovereignty conditions on
telecom and Internet businesses inside US, to make for a level playing
field for others - a field which even with such a change in US's
position would remain highly uneven....
parminder
On Thursday 08 August 2013 05:37 PM, Carolina wrote:
> Yesterday we had a public hearing in Brazil on our Internet Bill of
> Rights (Marco Civil).
>
> One of the business associations made a very compelling presentation
> on the negative effects of Internet Balkanization, presenting its
> points on economic terms and how any regulation regarding local
> servers and local data storage would increase the country cost and
> make a country even less competitive. It followed to present
> comparative country costs regarding storage and data centers. Pretty
> compelling for the politicians in the audience.
>
> Carolina
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 8, 2013, at 6:46 AM, "Peter H. Hellmonds"
> <peter.hellmonds at hellmonds.eu <mailto:peter.hellmonds at hellmonds.eu>>
> wrote:
>
>> Checks and balances means the best way to keep the surveillance state
>> in check is both effective judicial and transparent parliamentarian
>> oversight, but it needs to happen in a way that those watching over
>> these processes
>> a) are not being paid by those they are supposed to supervise
>> b) are not being lied to by the administration
>> c) do not operate in complete secrecy
>> d) do not create a separate body of secret laws
>>
>> Still, a lot of damage has been done that is irreversible and will
>> lead to far-reaching changes in Internet governance. If we want to
>> prevent a Balkanization of the net, we will need to continue on the
>> path of internationalization of the core processes and institutions
>> while safeguarding against the numerous attempts by one stakeholder
>> group to subvert the Multistakeholder principles that have made the
>> Internet the success it currently still is.
>>
>> --- Peter
>>
>>
>> On 08.08.2013, at 04:30, Suresh Ramasubramanian <suresh at hserus.net
>> <mailto:suresh at hserus.net>> wrote:
>>
>> We're actually in agreement that there's a dichotomy here.
>>
>> However, court rather than administration oversight over such
>> processes remains key to constitutional and democratic controls.
>>
>> --srs (iPad)
>>
>> On 08-Aug-2013, at 7:56, "michael gurstein" <gurstein at gmail.com
>> <mailto:gurstein at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, for sure and we know that the trend globally has been towards
>>> more democratic accountability and less arbitrary governance so it
>>> is particularly disturbing to see that the loudest governmental
>>> advocate in support of these trends seems to be moving quite rapidly
>>> in the other direction.
>>>
>>> Move
>>>
>>> *From:*Suresh Ramasubramanian [mailto:suresh at hserus.net]
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 07, 2013 10:39 AM
>>> *To:* Diego Rafael Canabarro
>>> *Cc:* governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> <mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>; michael gurstein; Avri Doria
>>> *Subject:* Re: [governance] Secret Surveillance Puts Internet
>>> Governance System at Risk
>>>
>>> It is a matter of scale. There are governments where any and every
>>> citizen could expect to hear a midnight knock on the door to have
>>> his whole family shipped off to an undisclosed location.
>>>
>>> There are others where the rule of law exists, constitutional
>>> protections exist and such cases are aberrations.
>>>
>>> In all fairness, there are countries where Manning would have been
>>> tortured and shot without benefit of any sort of trial for what he did.
>>>
>>>
>>> --srs (iPad)
>>>
>>>
>>> On 07-Aug-2013, at 8:58, Diego Rafael Canabarro
>>> <diegocanabarro at gmail.com <mailto:diegocanabarro at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> "the USA is far from being the sort of country North Korea, Iran
>>> or Saudi Arabia are"
>>>
>>> These days, it has been pretty hard to sustaion that argument
>>> without serious open flanks. Especially when one considers that
>>> the argument "the sort of ..." is naturally biased towards a
>>> very manichean ways of seeing things. Pursuing Sanchez makes
>>> Cuba evil. The same with Aaron Swarts or Assange is turned
>>> sacred with the bless (and bliss, and also the magic cape) of
>>> the rule of law.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 6:04 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian
>>> <suresh at hserus.net <mailto:suresh at hserus.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>> It would be wrong to assume that any government at all doesn't
>>> wear multiple hats - a security service, regulators, etc all
>>> acting with a degree of independence can produce such contradictions
>>>
>>> Still, the USA is far from being the sort of country North
>>> Korea, Iran or Saudi Arabia are. Some perspective might
>>> actually help before tarring all governments with the same
>>> brush. Or before assuming that each and every government entity
>>> moves in lockstep with the other.
>>>
>>> Lacking that perspective would perhaps show almost as much naïveté
>>>
>>> --srs (iPad)
>>>
>>>
>>> On 05-Aug-2013, at 15:15, "michael gurstein" <gurstein at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:gurstein at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > This position strikes me as either naïve or duplicitous in the
>>> extreme.
>>> >
>>> > Does one really believe that the USG and its "Internet
>>> Freedom" allies were
>>> > supporting Internet Freedom because they believed in a free
>>> Internet (while
>>> > they were using the Internet to build the capacity to
>>> undermine the
>>> > fundamental human rights/freedoms of us all).
>>> >
>>> > Rather, it should I think, be evident that their real
>>> motivation was to
>>> > ensure that there were no structures or mechanisms of whatever
>>> sort
>>> > (governmental, inter-governmental, multi-stakeholder or
>>> whatever) that
>>> > are/were in a position to protect those human rights and
>>> against the
>>> > depredations which they were secretly constructing with which
>>> we all are
>>> > being threatened.
>>> >
>>> > Do you really believe that the good folks who built and/or
>>> funded the
>>> > current systems are going unbidden to build/fund out of the
>>> fineness of
>>> > their principles the systems that you are suggesting would
>>> "protect us from
>>> > government intrusion and ... revise Internet architectures so
>>> as to
>>> > eliminate the points of control that governments are so
>>> successful at
>>> > exploiting".
>>> >
>>> > Our strength such as it is, comes from the possibility of
>>> creating and
>>> > implementing democratic processes and mechanisms through which
>>> governments
>>> > and the increasingly global commons can be made transparent
>>> and held
>>> > accountable and through which the protection of human rights
>>> and fundamental
>>> > freedoms can be protected and extended.
>>> >
>>> > Mike
>>> >
>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> <mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org>
>>> > [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> <mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org>] On Behalf Of
>>> Avri Doria
>>> > Sent: Monday, August 05, 2013 3:06 PM
>>> > To: IGC
>>> > Subject: Re: [governance] Secret Surveillance Puts Internet
>>> Governance
>>> > System at Risk
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On 2 Aug 2013, at 18:35, Diego Rafael Canabarro wrote:
>>> >
>>> > quoting:
>>> >
>>> >> Secret Surveillance Puts Internet Governance System at Risk
>>> Friday
>>> >> August 02, 2013
>>> >>
>>> >> http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/6926/135/
>>> >
>>> >> the U.S. has ceded the moral high ground on the issue.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Anyone who believes that any government anywhere occupies high
>>> ground is
>>> > likely to be disappointed. Governments, while unfortunately
>>> still a
>>> > necessary evil in this stage human moral development, are not
>>> to be trusted
>>> > but to be controlled and treated with suspicion by the people
>>> as much as
>>> > possible. sure there are good people in all governments, but
>>> government
>>> > themselves are not those good people, rather they are
>>> bureaucracies
>>> > motivated by a complex of intractable and often negative forces.
>>> >
>>> > The high ground in Dubai was not an issue of which government
>>> should be
>>> > trusted, it was the point of trying to remove all governments
>>> as much as
>>> > possible. Governments cannot be trusted. History shows us
>>> that they never
>>> > could be and it is only blind faith that indicates someday
>>> they may be
>>> > trustworthy. Of course when governments are the only voice we
>>> have for
>>> > limiting government intrusion - as they are in the ITU, the
>>> topic can get
>>> > perverted.
>>> >
>>> > But to view the confirmation of what we all knew, that all
>>> governments
>>> > monitor all people at all times as much as they can get away
>>> with, as an
>>> > excuse to give other governments more oversight is a bit
>>> confused to my
>>> > mind.
>>> >
>>> > I think all this has shown is that an Internet that allows any
>>> sort of
>>> > government interference is likely to be used by those
>>> governments for their
>>> > own purposes, whether they are, surveillance in the service of
>>> perceived
>>> > terror, pedophilia or intellectual 'property' threats , the
>>> silencing of
>>> > dissidents or the persecution of minorities such as the gay
>>> population and
>>> > other cultural/nation/racial minorities.
>>> >
>>> > While we can and must fight on the policy front to defend
>>> ourselves against
>>> > the vulnerabilities created and already exploited by the
>>> current Internet's
>>> > control points, we must put more and more focus into creating
>>> technologies
>>> > and processes that protect us from government intrusion and
>>> must revise
>>> > Internet architectures so as to eliminate the points of
>>> control that
>>> > governments are so successful at exploiting.
>>> >
>>> > avri
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>> > ____________________________________________________________
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>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Diego R. Canabarro
>>>
>>> http://lattes.cnpq.br/4980585945314597
>>>
>>> --
>>> diego.canabarro [at] ufrgs.br <http://ufrgs.br>
>>>
>>> diego [at] pubpol.umass.edu <http://pubpol.umass.edu>
>>> MSN: diegocanabarro [at] gmail.com <http://gmail.com>
>>> Skype: diegocanabarro
>>> Cell # +55-51-9244-3425 (Brasil) / +1-413-362-0133 (USA)
>>> --
>>>
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