[governance] abuse by the coordinator

Thu Apr 25 23:00:31 EDT 2013

First of all, it is not (at least no longer) proposed as a 'definition'. It is an overarching principle that we wish Internet governance and Internet related public policies to be informed by...
[Milton L Mueller] Right. That is exactly what I thought. And I have made it clear that I do not agree with your formulation of the principle. I have supported that opposition with reasoning, references to scholarly literature, facts, and history. I have also made it clear that the basic conceptual definitions on which you base this so-called principle are invalid.

Others have supported some or all of my criticisms – only a few to be sure, but the overall number of people participating in this debate is tiny anyway, no more than 6 or 7 are regularly engaged.

And instead of a serious and probing debate about principles and an attempt to find out how one might bridge those differences, we have a coordinator who unilaterally threatens to throw people off the list.

Do you really think this is the way to “make a solid dent in global IG?”

Many organisations/ bodies have developed Internet policy principles, and some of them have started to make a solid dent on global IG and Internet related public polices.  IGC till now has almost exclusively made process related interventions and statements alone, which, well, does impact its credibility. The question is asked; but what is it that you substantially stand for, which way would you want to see the Internet evolve, and so on...

Therefore what we are trying to evolve here is a larger advocacy position, about how we want to see the Internet evolve, and thus governed. This statement, if adopted, I understand wil be used to preface our inputs to processes like the WG on enhanced cooperation (on Internet related public policy issues) and, if the caucus so desires, the World Telecom/Internet Policy Forum (on Internet related public polices), and others.
[Milton L Mueller] Exactly what I thought. And that is why I made the promise (not a threat) that if my and others’ valid criticisms are ignored and this statement is rammed through I will actively work to make it clear to the rest of the community that civil society as a whole does not support the statement and I will actively expose its flaws, and actively undermine any attempt to pretend that “this is the way “we” want the internet to evolve. So you can try to bridge that difference now, or have it come out later.

parminder

And clearly the text is still very fluid.

Lets just continue discussion until we know what we are doing and why. Calls for consensus give a dread feeling of a WCIT'ish call for temperature of the room.

Adam

On Friday, April 26, 2013, Mawaki Chango wrote:
BTW, instead of one individual asserting what he or she will or won't allow the Caucus to do, why don't we put forward the contentious statement (some version of it, whatever) for a consensus call (or some other relevant procedure of the kind) as to whether it is worth pursuing --as I believe parminder suggested? To that end, the initiators should clearly remind us of the main purpose and both should feature in the call. If that gets defeated then the Caucus drops it and move forward.
My 2 cents.
mawaki

On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 6:01 PM, Mawaki Chango <kichango at gmail.com<mailto:kichango at gmail.com>> wrote:
+1

I am far from being among the least fortunate among my fellow Africans and other people from the developing world. Yet, I am right now sitting in a cybercafe somewhere in West Africa, and this is my first internet session since my last post to IGC list yesterday -- because I don't have the luxury of a high speed internet connection at home or wherever I stay in this city -- and I have already spent 1 hour mostly reading this list posts (and not all of them).
Under conditions like those and conditions like these, you say you want people around the world, for most of whom English is a foreign language --at least for those few who can read and write it -- to participate in these processes? You better get out of your bubble, folks!
Mawaki

On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 3:33 PM, Andrea Glorioso <andrea at digitalpolicy.it<mailto:andrea at digitalpolicy.it>> wrote:
Dear Milton, dear all,

I am not entirely clear whether it is appropriate for me to enter in this debate, as I'm certainly not "part" of the Internet Governance Caucus but I simply read / try to participate to the discussions taking place on this list. So, if this message is not appropriate, please disregard it.

For the avoidance of doubt, I'm expressing a personal position here.
I read with great interest the exchanges on the notion of "public good", "commons" etc. Milton's substantive arguments are in my view rather correct, as it often (but not always :) happens, at least to the extent that they warn against under-emphasising the importance of private-sector initiative and consumers' choices in the past, current and future development of the Internet.

However, I do find the way in which such arguments have been expressed rather troubling. To focus on one single example: it might well depend on cultural sensitivities (which are a reality in a global environment and although they should not result in self-censorship, they should at least produce more self-awareness) but I do find a sentence such as "be forewarned that if it does I will not allow anyone to misrepresent [the statement being discussed] as a civil society position" rather threatening.
Milton, what does it mean that "you will not allow" this or that? Having the fortune to know you a little bit, I can imagine you refer to a (very :) vigorous use of your right to freedom of expression (which, by the way, is not an unbounded right). However, others who don't know you might interpret the sentence rather differently. In Italy (or at least, among the Italians I grew up with) telling someone "I will not allow you" to do this or that does carry with it an implicit promise of a threat. Maybe people in other parts of the world might also have similar interpretations of this kind of expression.

(I also find this particular sentence rather arrogant, to the extent that it implies that if one single person disagrees with a statement, then it is not a "civil society position" - but this is besides the point).
Frankly, it does not seem to me that Norbert's remarks are trying to suppress discussion, at least for a definition of "discussion" which might not be Milton's or others' preferred one, but is certainly mine and perhaps that of several others: i.e. a debate in which we all try to keep tones as polite as possible.
I'm sorry to say that in the Internet governance environment there are quite a few persons - including, to be clear, Milton - whom I very deeply respect from an intellectual point of view, but who tend to express their ideas in ways which I find personally distasteful (not theirs, or anyone else's problem, of course) and, most importantly, do create a real problem when trying to disseminate such ideas with people (some of whom are key decision-makers you might want to influence...) who might have rather different standards of what constitutes acceptable ways to express yourself.

Or, to be shorter: it's nice to be important

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