[governance] abuse by the coordinator

[Milton L Mueller]

Andrea,
It's unfortunate to see you siding with those who would suppress dialogue and expel people from the list. Let me explain my position more clearly.

Milton, what does it mean that "you will not allow" this or that? Having the fortune to know you a little bit, I can imagine you refer to a (very :) vigorous use of your right to freedom of expression
[Milton L Mueller] Of course, that is what I meant. I made it clear that I will speak up against and challenge any attempt to force through a poorly-crafted statement as a "civil society" position or a position of this caucus.
Anyone can and should have the right to object to the group doing a statement on a topic which does not seem to be well-defined or to represent a good use of our scarce collective deliberation capabilities. If those kinds of objections are defined unilaterally as "bullying" and used to silence people, our caucus is in a very bad position.
Norbert's threat notwithstanding I will continue to say whatever I like about this proposed statement. If that means there is another casualty on the list, it is the list's loss and a great loss for this noble attempt to have a common forum for civil society in the IGF.
However, others who don't know you might interpret the sentence rather differently. In Italy (or at least, among the Italians I grew up with) telling someone "I will not allow you" to do this or that does carry with it an implicit promise of a threat. Maybe people in other parts of the world might also have similar interpretations of this kind of expression.
[Milton L Mueller] I don't take this argument seriously. Let others comment. How many felt physically threatened by that comment? Please let us know. I think you are coming up with lame rationalizations for your desired result, which is to shut me up. Anyway, if you are not sure what I mean, ask me. Don't threaten someone with suppression first, and ask questions later. Use the right to free expression, and believe in its use. Issuing a real threat before finding out is an abuse of the coordinator's position.
 (I also find this particular sentence rather arrogant, to the extent that it implies that if one single person disagrees with a statement, then it is not a "civil society position" - but this is besides the point).
[Milton L Mueller] Do you consider this a polite comment? I ask because You are calling me names while scolding me about the need to be polite. Anyway, if you'd bother to attend to the facts in this case, you would see that many people have expressed disagreement with this proposed statement.
Even if they stand alone, any individual who strongly disagrees with an IGC statement has a right to stand up and say they don't agree with it and will work against it in other contexts. And they have a right not to get kicked off the list, or threatened with such, when they do. Do you disagree?
Frankly, it does not seem to me that Norbert's remarks are trying to suppress discussion, at least for a definition of "discussion" which might not be Milton's or others' preferred one, but is certainly mine and perhaps that of several others: i.e. a debate in which we all try to keep tones as polite as possible.
Sorry, Andrea, threats to expel people do more to poison the dialogue here than any style of communication.
I'm sorry to say that in the Internet governance environment there are quite a few persons - including, to be clear, Milton - whom I very deeply respect from an intellectual point of view, but who tend to express their ideas in ways which I find personally distasteful (not theirs, or anyone else's problem, of course) and, most importantly, do create a real problem when trying to disseminate such ideas with people (some of whom are key decision-makers you might want to influence...) who might have rather different standards of what constitutes acceptable ways to express yourself.
[Milton L Mueller] So polite. This attempt to divert the issue to my communication style turns the whole thing into an ad hominem argument, literally. And as an Italian I am sure you can translate the Latin. If style were really the issue, Parminder and Gurstein would have been thrown off the list and publicly warned long ago. I suspect these attacks have more to do with what I say and who I am criticizing than with the "way I express my ideas." And to put a fine point on it, we both know, Andrea, that you and the EC have been the target of my criticism on several occasions, and I suspect that that has more to do with your intervention in this matter than the "distasteful" way of expressing ideas.
Let me make it clear that I would never support threatening Parminder or Gurstein or Suresh - or you - with expulsion. It is obvious to me that almost all of our disagreements are based on substantive differences. People are getting heated here not because of their style of expression, but because they are debating fundamental principles, deeply held values and rights, with real consequences. I respect that in Parminder and Michael, even when I disagree with them; I am strong enough that I have no need to push them off the list or silence them. I would expect the same largeness of spirit of you.
There are truly disruptive or insulting people with nothing to contribute; none of the issues or people we are discussing now fall into that category. This is about expelling people because they disagree with the coordinator, and with you.
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