[governance] U.S. - Japan Policy Cooperation Dialogue on the Internet Economy

Chaitanya Dhareshwar chaitanyabd at gmail.com
Wed Oct 24 01:09:27 EDT 2012 

Yes Suresh well met - and blacklisting and data privacy become a concern
too - which is why the reputation thing matters so much. Also data
recovery, helpful staff - many points. So while technologically its up to
scratch, theres much to do on other fronts.

-C

On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 5:45 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian
<suresh at hserus.net>wrote:

> Softlayer has a datacenter in Singapore that it uses to service Asian
> clients.  Singapore being pretty much well connected and having great
> infrastructure, I guess it is far easier that way.
>
> One other difference between soft layer and ctrls that you mentioned is
> that soft layer has a comparatively smaller percentage of its ip addresses
> in various block lists, while ctrls hosts rather a lot of email marketers
> for an ISP their size.. Indian email marketers not, currently, being any
> good at concepts like optin and customer privacy, that becomes tough for
> ctrls to put it mildly
>
> --srs (iPad)
>
> On 23-Oct-2012, at 23:17, Chaitanya Dhareshwar <chaitanyabd at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Thanks Jean-Louis! Just to be clear I'm not trying to dissuade here - it's
> an admirable and very positive thing happening; just that (I keep saying
> IMHO because that's what it is) it will not be a unilateral decision from
> the governments - but it *will* be a unilateral decision from the *end
> users*. Parminder I believe this addresses your question in a way as well.
>
> Plus even if we're able to provide a 24/7/365 setup - how many african
> nations are likely to create DCs/outbound ISPs? And how many are likely to
> be able to *sell* Africa-hosted clouds - *and make up their initial
> investment in full*?
>
> In my view, making a specific comparison, it will be at least 2-3 years
> before India can offer datacenter services that are considered on par (in
> terms of cost/roi/performance ratio) with today's US/UK/AU/Europe
> datacenter services, but that still does not mean that customers will buy
> it.
>
> What can be done to help reduce the gap today would be a matter of much
> conjecture - JVs and FDIs may help, franchising established foreign brands
> may help to get the market growing faster in India (eg. Softlayer India
> datacenter could have customers from developed countries that recognize the
> Softlayer 'brand'). But as I said this is all guesswork.
>
> Plus I'm only talking DCs/ISPs - I feel the same or a similar concept
> would apply for telecomms, automobiles/aircraft tech, weapons tech, and
> some other similar fields where the *perceived value* can be higher than
> the *true* *value*.
>
> Just my 2c. If it's value add do +1 :)
>
> -C
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 10:06 PM, Jean-Louis FULLSACK <
> jlfullsack at orange.fr> wrote:
>
>> Maybe Chaitanya that you're right about digital divide widening due to
>> "high speed clouds". In my opinion this isn't the only threat.
>>
>>
>>
>> Cloud networking requires a stable and 100% working network, i.e.
>> datacenters inlusive. All network components (equipment, centers, O&M
>> functionalities ...) need a stable and 24/7/365 electricity supply for
>> their feeding. In most countries of Africa electricity supply is
>> problematic, even in large cities. Therefore once you rely on distant SW
>> and Data for working with your terminal (i.e. in the cloud), the risks of a
>> "dark network" is sufficiently important for dissuading you from being
>> cloud enthousiastic ! Not to speak about public services and business
>> communications !
>>
>>
>>
>> Best
>>
>>
>>
>> Jean-Louis Fullsack
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > Message du 22/10/12 17:36
>> > De : "Chaitanya Dhareshwar"
>> > A : governance at lists.igcaucus.org, "Jean-Louis FULLSACK"
>> > Copie à : "parminder"
>> > Objet : Re: [governance] U.S. - Japan Policy Cooperation Dialogue on
>> the Internet Economy
>> >
>> >
>> Increasing the digital divide more like - the fastest clouds would be in
>> the most developed countries and thus the entire "cloud computing
>> investment" will go: to the most developed countries.
>>
>> Unless the less developed ones are able to pull up excellent network
>> speeds and stable datacenters.
>>
>> How many people here would choose CtrlS over Softlayer(Theplanet)?
>>
>> -C
>> >
>> >
>> On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 5:56 PM, Jean-Louis FULLSACK <
>> jlfullsack at orange.fr> wrote:
>> >
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> > Isn't this a joke :
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> > ........For these reasons, industry representatives suggested the
>>> following activities:
>>>
>>> > > · U.S-Japan collaboration for establishing an international
>>> framework to support cloud computing.
>>>
>>> > > · Promoting the use of cloud computing in developing countries and
>>> reducing the digital divide.
>>>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Either these prominent experts from Japan and US never were staying in
>>> African countries or they try to make us laughing ! I imagine the worries
>>> of Internet users in these countries with cloud based Internet networking
>>> in Cameroons or in Senegal (and a lot of others). For sure : they won't
>>> laugh at all !
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> > Best
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> > Jean-Louis Fullsack
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>> > Message du 22/10/12 09:44
>>> > > De : "parminder"
>>> > > A : governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> > > Copie à :
>>> > > Objet : Re: [governance] U.S. - Japan Policy Cooperation Dialogue on
>>> the Internet Economy
>>>
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> On Sunday 21 October 2012 09:50 PM, Fahd A. Batayneh wrote:
>>> > >
>>>
>>> The United States and Japan held the fourth Director General-level
>>> meeting of the U.S.-Japan Policy Cooperation Dialogue on the Internet
>>> Economy in Washington, D.C.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> http://www.yumanewsnow.com/index.php/news/latest/1450-u-s-japan-policy-cooperation-dialogue-on-the-internet-economy
>>> > >
>>>
>>>
>>> > > From the agreement text:
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>>
>>> Encouraging other countries to develop principles consistent with the
>>> “United States-Japan Trade Principles for Information and Communication
>>> Technology Services.
>>> > >
>>>
>>>
>>> > > SNIP
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>>
>>> ........For these reasons, industry representatives suggested the
>>> following activities:
>>>
>>> > > · U.S-Japan collaboration for establishing an international
>>> framework to support cloud computing.
>>>
>>> > > · Promoting the use of cloud computing in developing countries and
>>> reducing the digital divide.
>>>
>>> > > · Considering a range of policy issues, including: privacy, cloud
>>> computing security, digital content, interoperability, and portability.
>>>
>>>
>>> > > (quotes end)
>>> > >
>>> > > So rich countries merely go along developing 'global' principles for
>>> the Internet, and to 'encourage' other countries to follow / adopt them.
>>> Industry reps too want them to develop '*international *framework to
>>> support cloud computing', to promote use of cloud computing in developing
>>> countries, and to consider a range of policy issues....
>>> > >
>>> > > And when proposals like UN CIRP are made with a view to address
>>> these global Internet policy issues at globally democratic spaces, not only
>>> these developed countries, most hypocritically, cry foul, so does the
>>> industry (here seen actively encouraging developed countries to do exactly
>>> the same kind of work), and also, most disappointingly, the so called
>>> global IG civil society.
>>> > >
>>> > > Perhaps it is time the global IG civil society stop being the B team
>>> of developed countries' political and economic interests and really take up
>>> the interests of the more marginalised that it is supposed to represent.
>>> They need to develop an independent global IG agenda to be championed by
>>> the civil society, which looks like something worth championing by civil
>>> society.
>>> > >
>>> > > Does anyone here have answers why they remain silent with regard to
>>> the active work of rich countries to develop 'global' Internet policy
>>> principles, and react so rabidly to any effort at democratising global
>>> Internet policy making. Fine if they dont like the CIRP proposal, come up
>>> with something else. But the complicit silence is deafening.
>>> > >
>>> > > parminder
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>>
>>>
>>> > > Fahd
>>> > >
>>>
>>>
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
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>>
>>
>> >
>>
>>
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