[governance] U.S. - Japan Policy Cooperation Dialogue on the Internet Economy

Suresh Ramasubramanian suresh at hserus.net
Tue Oct 23 20:15:41 EDT 2012 

Softlayer has a datacenter in Singapore that it uses to service Asian clients.  Singapore being pretty much well connected and having great infrastructure, I guess it is far easier that way.

One other difference between soft layer and ctrls that you mentioned is that soft layer has a comparatively smaller percentage of its ip addresses in various block lists, while ctrls hosts rather a lot of email marketers for an ISP their size.. Indian email marketers not, currently, being any good at concepts like optin and customer privacy, that becomes tough for ctrls to put it mildly

--srs (iPad)

On 23-Oct-2012, at 23:17, Chaitanya Dhareshwar <chaitanyabd at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks Jean-Louis! Just to be clear I'm not trying to dissuade here - it's an admirable and very positive thing happening; just that (I keep saying IMHO because that's what it is) it will not be a unilateral decision from the governments - but it will be a unilateral decision from the end users. Parminder I believe this addresses your question in a way as well.
>  
> Plus even if we're able to provide a 24/7/365 setup - how many african nations are likely to create DCs/outbound ISPs? And how many are likely to be able to sell Africa-hosted clouds - and make up their initial investment in full?
>  
> In my view, making a specific comparison, it will be at least 2-3 years before India can offer datacenter services that are considered on par (in terms of cost/roi/performance ratio) with today's US/UK/AU/Europe datacenter services, but that still does not mean that customers will buy it.
>  
> What can be done to help reduce the gap today would be a matter of much conjecture - JVs and FDIs may help, franchising established foreign brands may help to get the market growing faster in India (eg. Softlayer India datacenter could have customers from developed countries that recognize the Softlayer 'brand'). But as I said this is all guesswork.
>  
> Plus I'm only talking DCs/ISPs - I feel the same or a similar concept would apply for telecomms, automobiles/aircraft tech, weapons tech, and some other similar fields where the perceived value can be higher than the true value.
>  
> Just my 2c. If it's value add do +1 :)
>  
> -C
>  
> 
>  
> On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 10:06 PM, Jean-Louis FULLSACK <jlfullsack at orange.fr> wrote:
>> Maybe Chaitanya that you're right about digital divide widening due to "high speed clouds". In my opinion this isn't the only threat. 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Cloud networking requires a stable and 100% working network, i.e. datacenters inlusive. All network components (equipment, centers, O&M functionalities ...) need a stable and 24/7/365 electricity supply for their feeding. In most countries of Africa electricity supply is problematic, even in large cities. Therefore once you rely on distant SW and Data for working with your terminal (i.e. in the cloud), the risks of a "dark network" is sufficiently important for dissuading you from being cloud enthousiastic ! Not to speak about public services and business communications !
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Best
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Jean-Louis Fullsack
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> > Message du 22/10/12 17:36
>> > De : "Chaitanya Dhareshwar" 
>> > A : governance at lists.igcaucus.org, "Jean-Louis FULLSACK" 
>> > Copie à : "parminder" 
>> > Objet : Re: [governance] U.S. - Japan Policy Cooperation Dialogue on the Internet Economy
>> > 
>> >
>> Increasing the digital divide more like - the fastest clouds would be in the most developed countries and thus the entire "cloud computing investment" will go: to the most developed countries.
>>  
>> Unless the less developed ones are able to pull up excellent network speeds and stable datacenters.
>>  
>> How many people here would choose CtrlS over Softlayer(Theplanet)?
>>  
>> -C
>> > 
>> >
>> On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 5:56 PM, Jean-Louis FULLSACK <jlfullsack at orange.fr> wrote:
>> >
>>> 
>>> >  
>>> 
>>> > Isn't this a joke :
>>> 
>>> >  
>>> 
>>> > ........For these reasons, industry representatives suggested the following activities:
>>> 
>>> > > · U.S-Japan collaboration for establishing an international framework to support cloud computing.
>>> 
>>> > > · Promoting the use of cloud computing in developing countries and reducing the digital divide.
>>> 
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > Either these prominent experts from Japan and US never were staying in African countries or they try to make us laughing ! I imagine the worries of Internet users in these countries with cloud based Internet networking in Cameroons or in Senegal (and a lot of others). For sure : they won't laugh at all !
>>> 
>>> >  
>>> 
>>> > Best
>>> 
>>> >  
>>> 
>>> > Jean-Louis Fullsack
>>> 
>>> >  
>>> 
>>> >  
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> >
>>> 
>>> > Message du 22/10/12 09:44
>>> > > De : "parminder" 
>>> > > A : governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> > > Copie à : 
>>> > > Objet : Re: [governance] U.S. - Japan Policy Cooperation Dialogue on the Internet Economy
>>> 
>>> > > 
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> On Sunday 21 October 2012 09:50 PM, Fahd A. Batayneh wrote:
>>> > >
>>> The United States and Japan held the fourth Director General-level meeting of the U.S.-Japan Policy Cooperation Dialogue on the Internet Economy in Washington, D.C.
>>> > > 
>>> > > http://www.yumanewsnow.com/index.php/news/latest/1450-u-s-japan-policy-cooperation-dialogue-on-the-internet-economy
>>> > >
>>> 
>>> > > From the agreement text:
>>> > > 
>>> > >
>>> Encouraging other countries to develop principles consistent with the “United States-Japan Trade Principles for Information and Communication Technology Services.
>>> > >
>>> 
>>> > > SNIP
>>> > > 
>>> > >
>>> ........For these reasons, industry representatives suggested the following activities:
>>> > > · U.S-Japan collaboration for establishing an international framework to support cloud computing.
>>> 
>>> > > · Promoting the use of cloud computing in developing countries and reducing the digital divide.
>>> 
>>> > > · Considering a range of policy issues, including: privacy, cloud computing security, digital content, interoperability, and portability.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> > > (quotes end)
>>> > > 
>>> > > So rich countries merely go along developing 'global' principles for the Internet, and to 'encourage' other countries to follow / adopt them. Industry reps too want them to develop 'international framework to support cloud computing', to promote use of cloud computing in developing countries, and to consider a range of policy issues....
>>> > > 
>>> > > And when proposals like UN CIRP are made with a view to address these global Internet policy issues at globally democratic spaces, not only these developed countries, most hypocritically, cry foul, so does the industry (here seen actively encouraging developed countries to do exactly the same kind of work), and also, most disappointingly, the so called global IG civil society.
>>> > > 
>>> > > Perhaps it is time the global IG civil society stop being the B team of developed countries' political and economic interests and really take up the interests of the more marginalised that it is supposed to represent. They need to develop an independent global IG agenda to be championed by the civil society, which looks like something worth championing by civil society. 
>>> > > 
>>> > > Does anyone here have answers why they remain silent with regard to the active work of rich countries to develop 'global' Internet policy principles, and react so rabidly to any effort at democratising global Internet policy making. Fine if they dont like the CIRP proposal, come up with something else. But the complicit silence is deafening. 
>>> > > 
>>> > > parminder 
>>> > > 
>>> > > 
>>> > > 
>>> > > 
>>> > > 
>>> > > 
>>> > >
>>> 
>>> > > Fahd
>>> > >
>>> 
>>> > >
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> >
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>> 
>> > 
>> 
>> 
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> 
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