[governance] U.S. - Japan Policy Cooperation Dialogue on the Internet Economy
parminder
parminder at itforchange.net
Tue Oct 23 04:07:18 EDT 2012
Alejandro/ Chaitanya,
On Tuesday 23 October 2012 10:27 AM, Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch wrote:
> Chaitanya,
>
> thanks! so, not much of an Internet Governance aspect to this issue left.
In fact, the primary internet 'Governance' question posed in my initial
posting remains and has not been addressed at all, with the discussion
swerving towards operational issues.
I had asked, why should US and Japan develop "an international framework
to support cloud computing" and not all countries - developed and
developing - together do it? Any responses to this primary IG question.
And since Alejandro mentions 'ugly imperialists' , I will like to say
that it is in unilaterally imposing governance frameworks developed by
rich countries over the whole world that 'ugly imperialism' comes in.
You do all the governance work, and if developing countries want to do
it, call them as despots out to control the Internet, and for good
measure, co-opt a willing civil society into the game.
parminder
> On to the next one.
>
> Yours,
>
> Alejandro Pisanty
>
> ! !! !!! !!!!
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> Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
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>
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> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Desde:* Chaitanya Dhareshwar [chaitanyabd at gmail.com]
> *Enviado el:* lunes, 22 de octubre de 2012 21:08
> *Hasta:* Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch
> *CC:* governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> *Asunto:* Re: [governance] U.S. - Japan Policy Cooperation Dialogue on
> the Internet Economy
>
> Hi Alex,
> I'm not blaming developing countries (or developed countries or
> anything else) here - its just that even when these facilities are
> provided and available the buyers are few. My example CtrlS is on par
> with Softlayer in most ways - except most importantly it's location.
> End of the day getting the system up from the investment capital and
> ensuring it has a workable revenue stream become quite different - and
> without the revenue stream even the best won't be /able to /be there
> very long.
> -C
>
> On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 12:36 AM, Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch
> <apisan at unam.mx <mailto:apisan at unam.mx>> wrote:
>
> Chaitanya,
>
> let me tell you a short story about clouds and grids in the real
> world.
>
> Several years ago in the consortium for the Internet-2 project in
> Mexico I (while Academic-CIO at UNAM) got funds for a project, the
> Metropolitan Supercomputing Delta, which would interconnect three
> supercomputers at high speed (ours was a Top-500 when purchased,
> 1,300 processors.) The key to the design was that the
> communication between the computers would never be more than an
> order of magnitude slower than the fiber inside the computers so
> we would not be working with batch jobs but some level of synched
> computing power for big science problems like computerized fluid
> dynamics, quantum chemistry, etc.
>
> This would become a National Reference Laboratory and a great
> place to train people in grids and a stepping stone toward
> provisioning cloud computing. The project was authorized but the
> funds were not released for several years (in the meantime I left
> that job.) Well, it's 2012 and it's beginning to work because it
> took years to go across the regulations to do things like dig
> trenches to cross a sidewalk between a university and the subway
> to connect to a fiber there and other stuff like that.
> Inefficiency, bureaucracy, lack of vision, petty politics, all
> played a role.
>
> Darned missed opportunity, darned high opportunity cost: we never
> got to train, hands-on and in critical, bleeding edfe, operations,
> the several hundred engineers we would have.
>
> Is this the fault of the ugly imperialists out there? Or will we
> admit that in developing countries we have some laundry of our own
> to wash before blaming it all on them?
>
> Why can't we, quoting you, "pull up excellent network speeds and
> stable datacenters" while "they" can?
>
> Alejandro Pisanty
>
> ! !! !!! !!!!
> NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO
>
> +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD
>
> +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO
>
> SMS +525541444475
> Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
> UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
>
> Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
> Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn,
> http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
> ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Desde:* governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
> <mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org>
> [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
> <mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org>] en nombre de
> Chaitanya Dhareshwar [chaitanyabd at gmail.com
> <mailto:chaitanyabd at gmail.com>]
> *Enviado el:* lunes, 22 de octubre de 2012 10:35
> *Hasta:* governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> <mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>; Jean-Louis FULLSACK
> *CC:* parminder
> *Asunto:* Re: [governance] U.S. - Japan Policy Cooperation
> Dialogue on the Internet Economy
>
> Increasing the digital divide more like - the fastest clouds would
> be in the most developed countries and thus the entire "cloud
> computing investment" will go: to the most developed countries.
> Unless the less developed ones are able to pull up excellent
> network speeds and stable datacenters.
> How many people here would choose CtrlS over Softlayer(Theplanet)?
> -C
>
> On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 5:56 PM, Jean-Louis FULLSACK
> <jlfullsack at orange.fr <mailto:jlfullsack at orange.fr>> wrote:
>
> Isn't this a joke :
>
> ........For these reasons, industry representatives suggested
> the following activities:
>
> > · U.S-Japan collaboration for establishing an international
> framework to support cloud computing.
>
> > · Promoting the use of cloud computing in developing
> countries and reducing the digital divide.
>
>
>
> Either these prominent experts from Japan and US never were
> staying in African countries or they try to make us laughing !
> I imagine the worries of Internet users in these countries
> with cloud based Internet networking in Cameroons or in
> Senegal (and a lot of others). For sure : they won't laugh at
> all !
>
> Best
>
> Jean-Louis Fullsack
>
>
>
>
> > Message du 22/10/12 09:44
> > De : "parminder"
> > A : governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> <mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
> > Copie à :
> > Objet : Re: [governance] U.S. - Japan Policy Cooperation
> Dialogue on the Internet Economy
>
> >
> >
> >
> On Sunday 21 October 2012 09:50 PM, Fahd A. Batayneh wrote:
> >
>
> The United States and Japan held the fourth Director
> General-level meeting of the U.S.-Japan Policy
> Cooperation Dialogue on the Internet Economy in
> Washington, D.C.
> >
> >
> http://www.yumanewsnow.com/index.php/news/latest/1450-u-s-japan-policy-cooperation-dialogue-on-the-internet-economy
> >
>
>
> > From the agreement text:
> >
> >
>
> Encouraging other countries to develop principles
> consistent with the “United States-Japan Trade
> Principles for Information and Communication
> Technology Services.
> >
>
>
> > SNIP
> >
> >
>
> ........For these reasons, industry representatives
> suggested the following activities:
>
> > · U.S-Japan collaboration for establishing an
> international framework to support cloud computing.
>
> > · Promoting the use of cloud computing in developing
> countries and reducing the digital divide.
>
> > · Considering a range of policy issues, including:
> privacy, cloud computing security, digital content,
> interoperability, and portability.
>
>
> > (quotes end)
> >
> > So rich countries merely go along developing 'global'
> principles for the Internet, and to 'encourage' other
> countries to follow / adopt them. Industry reps too want
> them to develop '/*international */framework to support
> cloud computing', to promote use of cloud computing in
> developing countries, and to consider a range of policy
> issues....
> >
> > And when proposals like UN CIRP are made with a view to
> address these global Internet policy issues at globally
> democratic spaces, not only these developed countries,
> most hypocritically, cry foul, so does the industry (here
> seen actively encouraging developed countries to do
> exactly the same kind of work), and also, most
> disappointingly, the so called global IG civil society.
> >
> > Perhaps it is time the global IG civil society stop
> being the B team of developed countries' political and
> economic interests and really take up the interests of the
> more marginalised that it is supposed to represent. They
> need to develop an independent global IG agenda to be
> championed by the civil society, which looks like
> something worth championing by civil society.
> >
> > Does anyone here have answers why they remain silent
> with regard to the active work of rich countries to
> develop 'global' Internet policy principles, and react so
> rabidly to any effort at democratising global Internet
> policy making. Fine if they dont like the CIRP proposal,
> come up with something else. But the complicit silence is
> deafening.
> >
> > parminder
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> > Fahd
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
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